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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Nettdata

    Nettdata
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    Mr. Toast

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    Yep... more and more grassroots campaigns by scientists are popping up as a direct result of the anti-science political scene.
     
  2. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    I would love to see a third party based on science, education and logic. But I also want reactionless drive to exist.
     
  3. Crown Royal

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    So Moore has not only just blamed his accusations entirely on the gays, he has retaken the lead.

    Roll tide.
     
  4. Juice

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    Thats really the only thing that could trigger an impeachment. If something came out of the investigations that constituted an abuse of power. As for perjury, which is a federal crime, he would have to be under oath to actually commit that. Clinton wasnt impeached for abuse of power, that charge failed. He was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. For instance, if Trump went and tried to fire Mueller at this point that would fit the bill. Unless its that type of clear cut illustration, I just dont see the numbers in the House and Senate crossing the impeachment threshold.

    For "high crimes and misdemeanors," the terminology is still debated. Originally it was put in place in case one of the early Presidents decided he wanted to be King or something along those lines. Its not necessarily meant for someone who acts like a retard sometimes. I suppose if the Senate wanted to go that route the argument could be made, but it would be a far more damaging thing in the long term than just leaving Trump in office and voting him out.
     
  5. Nettdata

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    It was the Clinton impeachment proceedings that actually brought the definition of HC&M into light, and it's still debated, but the wording was always intended to be quite broad in meaning so that it could be applied to the concept that it was trying to impart rather than specific technical definitions.

    As a result, it's open to interpretation.

    I misspoke when I mentioned perjury, but I was thinking that with all the lies that he spews, there has to be some sort of accountability for that. Maybe not for the Time Person of the Year shit, but for something more important, and more official.

    I think a ton of examples of abuse of authority could be raised, right now... just the constant conflict of interest that he's putting himself in... using Trump properties on the US dime, for instance... advertising Trump business ventures on official Government web sites... the list goes on.

    Never mind the concept of intimidation... he does that more than he breathes.

    I don't think it would take a rocket scientist to put together a reasonable case for impeachment, but it will take a hell of a lot of politicians with backbones to step up and act on it... and THAT is where I see the weak link.
     
  6. Aetius

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    The question isn't "can we find something to impeach him on" it's "which of the dozen things would play best."

    Make no mistake, if Trump were a Democrat the Republican Congress would have removed him from office months ago.
     
  7. GcDiaz

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  8. Crown Royal

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    Giving more political power to the insane idiots of religion. That’s the American way.
     
  9. zzr

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    That's just crazy talk. A Republican Congress couldn't even remove Clinton for committing an actual crime - perjury - but you think they would remove a hypothetical Democrat Trump for being stupid? Come on.
     
  10. Aetius

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    They impeached in the House and got 50 votes in the Senate against a competent president with a high approval rating on what was essentially a single charge. Against a hypothetical Trump(D) they would not have a single defector I promise you that.
     
  11. Rush-O-Matic

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    I don't know anything about him, but maybe Lee Busby will get people thinking about the opportunity for better candidates. Hopefully he'll get some write-in votes.
    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/marine_colonel_turned_sculptor.html (The Southern Living video link in that article is quite interesting, imo.)

    I don't hold out a lot of hope. My write-in for President didn't win, either.
     
  12. zzr

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    What you're refusing to admit is that the charge against Clinton was an actual crime that he really did commit - he actually lied under oath in court. The Senate was just too chicken to convict him. Almost everyone would argue that Clinton was far more competent than Trump. However, they charged Clinton correctly under the impeachment clause. Until Trump commits an actual crime, there's nothing in the impeachment clause that would help remove him. And as difficult as it is for you to believe, some Republican members of Congress do have a sense of right and wrong and would not vote to impeach even a Democrat Trump purely for embarrassing incompetence.
     
  13. Kampf Trinker

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    We're also talking about the people who endorsed Hillary (who committed a lot of crimes). It's hard to get impeached because it takes so much for your own party to be willing to do it. If Trump was the democrat the republicans would be trying to impeach him all day. The democrats would not.

    I think people are blinded by how much they hate Trump. Mueller's investigation might make him impeachable, but he has done nothing while in office to be impeached... yet.
     
  14. tweetybird

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  15. Aetius

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    There is not a single Republican anywhere in the country that would not vote to impeach the Democrat version of Donald Trump. And they would be right to do so. I would hope the Democrats would impeach him even if he was a member of their own party, but that's a difficult hypothetical to evaluate because the Democrats would never have supported him in the first place.
     
  16. Nettdata

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    This is incorrect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors#United_States

    There are things you can be impeached for that are not, technically, illegal.

    That's the whole point of that clause... to bypass the technicalities of law.
     
  17. Nettdata

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    "Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery.[4] Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve."
     
  18. GcDiaz

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    I mean who didn't see this coming?
     

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  19. Juice

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    Probably not, they do a pretty good job of screwing over their own constituents without him.
     
  20. Kampf Trinker

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    They can, in theory, impeach for practically anything they want. However, historically it has to be something quite serious for proceedings to really make headway. Bush started a war under false pretenses, burned and threatened a CIA agent because her husband did a (truthful) interview with the media, hid the debt he was piling onto the country, and that's just a start. They didn't impeach him.

    The only thing I can think of with Trump for the moment is the sexual harassment stuff, and even that I'm not sure would be serious enough. Bill Clinton did way worse than that and still had most of the support from his party. The actually rapey stuff wasn't even much of an issue to them at the time.