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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. ODEN

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    Name calling from someone with your.....condition. I suppose I can understand that, I'm not bothered but it doesn't strengthen your argument any.

    What has changed? Outline it for us.
     
  2. Aetius

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    The Comey press conference happened in the summer and at the time represented the close of the Clinton investigation. Later in the fall, during the Weiner investigation, investigators stumbled on a number of Clinton emails (Weiner's wife was a Clinton aide and had accessed her email from her husband's laptop). Technically this "re-opened" the Clinton investigation because the FBI had to see if there was anything new in them. Comey informed Congress of this change in the status of the investigation, which was promptly leaked to the press by Congressional Republicans. A few days later the FBI concluded that the emails recovered were duplicates of ones they had already looked through, and re-closed the investigation, but at that point the damage had been done and Clinton went on to lose the election days later.

    The potential New York Field Office issue is tangentially related to this, but more centers on the idea that the FBI's NYFO was aggressively anti-Clinton, and leaked things to the media in an effort to harm her candidacy. This also explains why Giuliani often claimed advanced knowledge of negative press about Clinton, as he had extensive relationships with New York law enforcement (including the FBI) from his days as a prosecutor and mayor. This all intersects with the above because there is speculation that Comey would normally have kept the reopening of the investigation a secret so close to the election (per the way the FBI usually operates) but for a fear that the NYFO would leak it and make it look like the FBI was covering something up for Clinton.
     
  3. Gravy

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    It should bother you that you frequently get basic information wrong.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-policy-of-separating-families-at-the-border/

     
  4. ODEN

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    Slow down for a second. I think you should take an extra second now and again to read what people are writing and not respond to what you think they are writing with shitiness and name calling. Your attitude towards others should concern you.

    How we treat ("treatment" from my post) illegals with children hasn't changed. They are separated in accordance with the rules. You and the article you quote are talking about enforcement (or volume of people receiving said treatment). Whether you or the Bezos Post likes it or not, it is the law of the fucking land and should be respected. It should have been enforced all along, now someone is actually enforcing the law and it is a problem? If you or others don't like it, lobby it for change and stop treating these people like a political football because you clearly don't give a shit about them or at least you didn't during the last administration. I don't either, never have but at least I am man enough to admit it.
     
  5. Nettdata

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    Stop the personal attacks. Talk shit about Trump, talk about how Trump is your fucking hero, but stop talking shit directly at each other.
     
  6. Gravy

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    See here in the middle of your paragraph where you admit that something wasn't being done and now is? That means people are being treated differently. A woman with a child detained for nothing but illegal first time border entry would have been treated differently in June of 2017 than she would have been in June of 2018 because of specific policy changes the Trump administration made. This isn't complicated in the least. You're either being exceptionally obtuse or extremely dishonest not to see that.

    You're obviously trying to give credit to Trump for making the change, so why not just own the change?

    Time to review my initial reply to you.

    See where I explicitly didn't make a value judgment on whether what Trump did was good or bad, just what was done?

    Do you not read the news? Because guess what: people lobbied for a change and Trump made one. No one call tell exactly what or if it is even legal because in the infinite wisdom of this country's populace we elected a guy who couldn't pour piss out of a boot unless he wanted to jerk off with it, but a change was made. He made a change after insisting at the beginning of the week that he couldn't change anything and this was all the democrats fault for not passing the laws that he wants. But yeah, that's not treating these people like political footballs or anything.
     
  7. ODEN

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    If a husband and wife, who are US citizens with children, and are involved in illegal activity are arrested - what is done with the children?
     
  8. xrayvision

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    Felony or misdemeanor?
     
  9. Nettdata

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    In the vast majority of cases the children are given to a family member to be taken care of.

    Worst case, they are put into foster care.

    Are you suggesting that the children of all husband and wife criminal duos are put into a cage together as some sort of justification that this is OK behaviour? Or that there are even thousands of such children in the span of a few months? Because that's not the case, it's not OK, and it's absurdist reasoning.
     
  10. ODEN

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    I'm not suggesting any of that.

    I am just reflecting on all the articles that are an appeal to emotion written about the irreparable psychological trauma a child experiences being separated from their parents. In addition to the change - or not change- where illegals with children will no longer be held in custody or held together in custody(?) Should we do the same in all instances of potential separation or only in this situation?
     
  11. Nettdata

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    You know... you're right. It's all the same.
     
  12. toytoy88

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  13. ODEN

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    Is it not a fair question? If we are going to leave reason behind and enter "think of the kids mode" like we seem to on most issues in this country, is it not reasonable to start looking into the foster care system for irreparably emotionally traumatized children who have been ripped away from their parents by another section of the legal system? I'm not sure what you think about foster care but you should look into a little further. The statistics that go along with it are shocking.
     
  14. Kubla Kahn

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    I really think the whole hidden recording of crying babies and this picture didn’t hit me in the feels at all is more along the lines of children 0-7 cry all the time for any and all reasons. I mean we’ve been dropping bombs on the Middle East for over a decade killing and maiming children and parents. The psychological terror of being taken away from your parents for a few weeks as they are charged with a crime didn’t move the needle.
     
  15. Nettdata

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    The fact that you took that comment as sarcasm rather than at face value says all that needs to be said. It's not the same, you know it, and in typical Fox News / Trump style, are trying to "but what about" the situation.

    This is an interesting video you may wish to watch:

     
  16. Rush-O-Matic

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    One of the reasons this issue hasn't really fired me up one way or the other, is the straight-up sensationalism, screaming, news hyperbole, etc of it, when there is so much more that should be moving the needle. Things that we can actually do something about if we put the energy into like people scream on Facebook. Juxtapose these numbers:

    Something can be done. And, I'm not even talking about income redistribution arguments, because there are plenty of poor and welfare recipients who are fat, too. Stop posting on Facebook and put down the cookie dough ice cream. Quit going back to the buffet line and getting twice as much as you need. No, I don't want you in my wallet to increase my taxes to combat this. Yes, I do take meals to a local shelter once a quarter. Yes, I support https://www.riseagainsthunger.org/ by preparing hundreds of meals with them twice a year. If you are fat and you are going to tell me you care about the children, then I will just think that you got that way on the backs of starving toddlers by depriving them.

    I only write all that simply as a way to illustrate what Kubla was saying - it just doesn't move the needle for me. No personal habit that I have is taking a child away or encouraging their parents to break the law.
     
  17. Gravy

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    So wait: you think the obesity epidemic and world hunger are going to be easier to solve than Trump just going back to the way things were last year?

    He didn’t have to do this to begin with and could reverse it all with a phone call. But sure, we can knock out the obesity epidemic and world hunger super easily and all without spending tax dollars. Sure thing, easy peasy.
     
    #6597 Gravy, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  18. Rush-O-Matic

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    Yes, that's exactly what I said. I was afraid I hadn't made my point well.

    But, since you wrote that, I will actually respond to what you wrote. First of all, no, world hunger is a much, much bigger challenge than this issue, or any others, which is why I limited my comments and statistics to the US. Second, yes, reducing obesity and feeding hunger US children is much, much easier than "Trump just going back to the way things were last year." The way things were was a problem, under the previous or current administration, and the solution is challenging. Going back, or changing it, is emotional and has lots of political pieces. The point I made in my post, was that this has gotten lots and lots fo news coverage, entertainers are volunteering to foster the separated children, it made Time Magazine's cover, Twitter was aflutter, and Facebook melted. If Trump "went back" is immigration fixed?

    Under the current, changed, or previous policies, Rush-O-Matic can do absolutely nothing to help sort it out. (I mean, I can't even call my congress person, because I am in the minority, and won't do anything.) But, I can (and do) little things that actually will make a difference for helping fight obesity and hunger. It doesn't even take hyperbole, straw man arguments, twisting commentary or sarcasm.
     
  19. Gravy

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    I misread you in your original post but this is still pretty silly.

    We are not even talking about fixing immigration as a whole. We are talking about the problem of trump separating children from their parents. We can’t even agree that is a problem though so it’s not going real well.

    And nope, Trump just saying “fuck it I made a bad call” and reversing course is still much easier and more likely than ginning up entire movements to deal with issues that people largely don’t care about.

    But it’s genuinely good that you’re working toward ending food insecurity in America or anywhere else. Good luck and whatnot.
     
  20. Nettdata

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