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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Kampf Trinker

    Kampf Trinker
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    Well, Trump walked that back in a hurry. You "misspoke"? I think he means he finally realized how stupid he sounded.

    I'm not quite ready to call it treason, but I'll be damned if he isn't working hard to convince that yes, he was the greater of two evils.
     
  2. Binary

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    Are you aware that disapproving of their practices and believing they draw incorrect conclusions are not the same thing?

    The fact that our intelligence agencies are leaky and prone to overreach doesn't mean they are wrong, and the fact that "liberals" generally place a higher value on privacy and civil liberties doesn't have anything to do with how much the information these agencies generate is trusted.
     
  3. Aetius

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    Donald Trump: Wait, you're telling me I wasn't in Canada this whole time? I said that shit about Vladimir Putin? Whoa, my mistake guys.
     
  4. Revengeofthenerds

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    Trump just woke up from a blackout and checked his texts like "awwww fuck!!!"
     
  5. ODEN

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    Keenly aware of the difference and unequivocally in disagreement with them in general with both their practices and their conclusions. As an example, I think our entire problem with the ME is a direct reflection of incorrect/overreaching practice based on poor thought processes. I don't think we will ever recover fully from intelligence fuck-ups in the region that stretch the past 50 years. I have no faith in these organizations whatsoever. I don't trust a word they say. They might as well be used car salesman.

    Based on past performance (according to Congress the information generated was accurate enough to cause Iraq to disintegrate), I don't take them at their word that they are right. Consensus or not.
     
  6. Kampf Trinker

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    Just saying dude, it wasn't just one of the intelligence agencies. It was 16 of them that reached this conclusion. I think that's all of them. If they're lying that would be one hell of a conspiracy. If they're incompetent that's incredible parallel incompetence to all fuck up towards the same conclusion.

    I agree with you in a general way, and I think some of these organizations have earned distrust, but on this there's virtually no way they're wrong on the big picture. In some details perhaps, but not overall. Also, it's not like this is a hard to swallow premise. Russians trying to influence American politics? That's practically a given even when the intelligence agencies aren't talking about.
     
  7. Binary

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    So... a number of intelligence agencies, both domestic and foreign (the British and the Dutch warned the US about this), reaching the same conclusion, along with investigative journalists in various parts of the world providing supporting information, and the subject of the investigation acting in a way that reinforces the findings...

    All of the used car salesmen across the world got together and price fixed that 2003 Accord, just to fuck with you, huh?
     
  8. xrayvision

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    Yea, yes we know. But Obama said that if you like your insurance, you can keep it.
     
  9. Binary

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    The line between cautious distrust and willful ignorance isn't nearly as fuzzy as many people seem to believe.
     
  10. bebop007

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    Not to mention how quickly people can change their mindset:

    FBI: We're investigating Hillary.
    Conservatives: Yay! FBI's the best!

    FBI: We didn't find anything.
    Conservatives: Boo! FBI's the worst!

    Within the span of what? Less than a year?
     
  11. Trakiel

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    Call me Caitlyn. Got any cake?

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    In fairness...

    FBI: We're investigating Hillary.
    Democrats: This is a partisan witch-hunt driven by FBI managers with Republican allegiances! They can't be trusted!

    FBI: We're investigating Trump's campaign & Trump's cronies.
    Democrats: The FBI is the only government agency we can trust!

    As a Liberal/Progressive, I do think Hillary's emails were a witch-hunt driven by partisanship, and I don't entirely trust the objectivity of the FBI even though they're investigating Trump, but I'll take what I can get and hope for the best.
     
  12. Nettdata

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    In fairness, I thought the email investigation was 100% justified as what she was doing was sketchy as fuck, never mind illegal. It was an apparently blatant attempt to keep shit out of proper discovery and accountability processes and damn rights it should have been investigated.

    It was only because it was spun as an attempt to sway the election that caused problems, and that wasn't helped by Comey (as the recent reports show).
     
  13. Nettdata

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  14. Aetius

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  15. Kubla Kahn

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    See I just don’t get the treasonous outrage over this. This is exactly how he’s acted every time this has come up. Basically what ever his mood was at any given moment.
     
  16. xrayvision

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    Does any of this...bother you?
     
  17. Kubla Kahn

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    Yeah generally it be great if he wasn’t as consistently inconsistent, actually stable and even keeled. But the media’s response is still so overboard it’s hard not to look out the window and hear crickets and just let your eyes glaze over and slip into apathy over all the hysteria.
     
  18. bewildered

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    Do you leave news channels on for long periods of time while you do other things or sit to eat? If so, you need to take a break. There are so manymomentous and game-changing things happening in our country, things that could literally change the course of our future, and apathy is the opposite reaction you should be having.

    Personally, I intentionally seek out specific information. We do not have TV running at all. I look for headlines for things that have happened and then use that to look for primary source material. I very rarely watch news channels such as CNN or Fox news. An interesting and eye opening game to play is to read the actual speeches or statements made at Summits and meetings and then go to those secondary sources and see their spin on it. It is 95% of the time entirely disingenuous. But it totally fucks up your thought processes if you listen to the spin and then go to try and listen to primary source material.
     
  19. bebop007

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    You know, I first remember coming across 1984 and thinking the Two Minutes Hate thing was too silly to take seriously.......until I started comparing it to the bolded outlets. I try to avoid the CNNs,the Fox's and anything similar and go for the source if possible. I don't even think they actually inform or educate. They identify their audiences nerve points and hit them ad nauseam.

    CNN: Gay Concentration Camps! Immigrant babies slingshotted into the sun!

    Fox: Tax money sent to minorities to have abortions on the American Flag! Veterans beaten to death by Muslims for wishing people a Merry Christmas!

    It just seems.......nonproductive. I guess that's the best word I can think of. Even my dad who leans pretty conservative gave up Fox News. He would just say it made him angry more than anything else.
     
  20. Nettdata

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