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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. ODEN

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    Ok, so let's examine that. Who is the foreign enemy he was speaking to?
     
  2. xrayvision

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    Flynn was conspiring with Erdogan to kidnap a US citizen. This call was picked up by officials in the US. Officials in the Obama administration were informed of the call taking place with a US citizen. The "unmasking" was them learning who the US person was. That person was Flynn.
     
  3. Kampf Trinker

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    They seem happy enough to pretend the report said something completely different than what it did, and then let it die. They made absolute asses of themselves and there was enough stupid there to last several lifetimes. I really hope it's dead and I never see anything like it again.
     
  4. ODEN

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    So, Erdogan is a foreign enemy? The leader of Turkey? The one that houses Incerlik Air Base? The same Turkey who is a stakeholder in the F-35 program and a member State of NATO?
     
  5. downndirty

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    Yes, dude. If the mayor of fucking Jacksonville was conspiring to commit a crime against an American citizen it would trigger some concern.

    The fuck does an Air Force Base have to do with anything? Man, wait til you find out about that resort the US Army has in Cuba...yes, THAT Cuba.
     
  6. xrayvision

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    Don’t forget Saudi Arabia. A lot of bad actors have complicated relationships with the US.
     
  7. ODEN

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    I am pointing out to you and everyone else here how arbitrary and capricious these arguments that we construct are to allow our Government to trample people's rights. If hostile actions toward U.S. citizens are such a problem now then where the fuck were you two when we droned a U.S. citizen to death in Yemen without trial? It's whatboutism, right? It's not important now because it's political and the ends justify your means.

    Again, arbitrary. Are we unmasking every American who speaks to MBS or King Salman? I bet not. Jamaal Kashoggi was just a WAPO reporter killed by KSA.......but whatevs, right?
     
  8. Nettdata

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    Elect better people.
     
  9. downndirty

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    Please educate me, since it's not like I work for a DHS agency, and I don't drive past NSA on my way to work every day or have friends that work in other parts of the surveillance machine. Nope, never seen this shit in action before, so I need you to point this stuff out, silly old me.

    I am not a fan of the powers that have materialized post 9-11, or how they are being implemented. However, to whatever point you're making, I don't see a path to putting this shit back in Pandora's box. We grew incredibly reliant on a communications channel that become the dominant form of communications within an incredibly short time, and have yet to reckon with our government's place in it. On one hand, I can't give cell phone location data to Federal first responders in a search and rescue, but on the other my every word can be monitored at some level because "terrorism". Half of our elected representatives are geriatric and don't understand the technology or how to use it, and simply agree to whatever their lobbyists suggest.

    I refuse to play the game of "when it's my side it's persecution, but when it's your side it's accountability." It's all or nothing, the politics are not a concern here, the issue is the surveillance. I was just as upset when Obama abused this power, as I was when Trump did it. I was most pissed when Bush established it. I think it's going to be the curse of my generation: we gave away privacy, in exchange for vacation pics and internet points.

    What will really boil your noodle is: what OTHER governments are listening to you? And what could THEY possibly want with that information?

    It's not important now, because the motherfucker already plead guilty to the crime, and there's kind of a situation afoot.
     
  10. Kampf Trinker

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    They just nominated Biden. It could not be clearer how little most care about ideas or change anymore. Look at their fucking reasons for nominating him. "He was friends with Obama." How the fuck is that a reason???

    It's about winning against the other party. Why or what for takes a very distant backseat. If they accidently elect a good one, then that needs to be corrected because seeing a person with principles makes them want to puke. Look at Gabbard... they ran her out for being a white nationalist icon and Russian puppet. That is so many layers of stupid and wtf I would barely even know where to begin.

    Have you ever seen establishment dems argue with the 'Bernie bros' about policy? No, and you won't. It's they're sexist, they're racist, etc.
     
  11. downndirty

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    How is "serving as Vice President for 8 years" not a reason to nominate him, especially when we're currently in an administration ran by a political amateur?

    You could make the argument that Bernie or Warren were unfairly pushed aside by the party leaders, but Gabbard wasn't ran out as much as she failed to impress enough to move forward. To be fair, that whole Russian puppet thing was weird as fuck. She's got a solid future ahead, but I think the reason she didn't advance much further than she did was more of her own 'meh' reaction than the party conspiring to derail her. I think she'll return, and in a big way in 2024 or beyond. Also, I think coming from Hawaii hurt her, in part because that's where Obama was "from", and it's hard to generate name recognition when you are 5 hours away.

    I think the outlook is: victory is uncertain, and given the stakes in 2020, the party threw their weight behind a safe bet (Biden) that Trump will have a hard time with (anything new Trump has to say about the Obama administration??), and turn the whole 2020 election into a referendum on Trump. I think the longer this virus goes on, the safer that bet becomes, especially as the economy tanks. That's unfortunate, but Trump has only himself to blame.

    When I think of "establishment Democrats" I think of people like Warren, who will argue policy all damned day with just about anyone: it's her best chance to shine. I think the Democratic pundits and talking points retreat back from those complexities into simple 'sexist/racist' arguments, and dear fucking GOD am I tired of those. Some of this is a symptom of the short attention span: policy is complicated, boring and obtuse. It resists summary and talking points, and it's much easier to "make america great again" than to explain something so staggeringly complex as healthcare or immigration. Why is the border crisis a big deal? You could read out a dissertation on asylum rights, immigration systems, the CBP mandate and all the things influencing people to come across the border illegally, or overstay their visas (by far the more common form of illegal immigration). Or you could say "these policies are racist" and shut up. Racism=bad, big words=complicated, and they take the easy way out.

    Also, and I think this is going to be REALLY important in this election: racism and sexism mean wildly different things to different people. Not everything bad that happens to a woman or a minority is due to racism or sexism, and the sooner politicians on both sides stop playing those games (because the Republicans absolutely have figured out how to use that to goad the Democrats into fuck ups by now), the better off we are all going to be. I don't get to decide what the national definition of racism/sexism is, and when it really counts that's what the Supreme Court is for. The strategy is to make this election a referendum on Trump, and if inherent in that strategy is a drumbeat about sexism or racism, they will lose.
     
  12. Kampf Trinker

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    Gabbard did get run out. She won't be serving in the house anymore. We had like one good one, and now she's gone because this party is full of idiots now.

    And while I think Biden with a good head on his shoulders is a safe bet I really don't feel the same about 2020 Biden. He could win, but a guy who has to avoid the public because he can't find his way from one end of a sentence to the other is hardly safe.

    They're taking a tremendous risk, and not because they like his ideas, or principles, or anything like that. It's because he's 'safe'. That's pretty fucking stupid. Sorry, but it really is.
    Remember when republicans were told not to vote Trump because he can't win? The republicans have learned the media doesn't know what they're talking about. The democrats sure are taking their sweet fucking time to learn the same lesson.
     
    #12952 Kampf Trinker, May 15, 2020
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  13. Aetius

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    It's way more than "some of this." It doesn't matter how strong you are on policy, or how extensive your policy is, only 1 out of 100 voters will ever even open the url of your platform page, and maybe 1 in 10 will even be aware of what your policies are beyond a soundbite policy like "Build the Wall" or "Medicare for All." Clinton took a serious bruising for ignoring coal country, even though she had a $30 billion plan right on her policy page. But nobody read it, while they did hear Trump say coal miners would be "working their asses off" when the mines magically reopened.
     
  14. Gravy

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    She didn't get run out. She decided to not run in the house race so she could campaign for president. It's not like she lost a primary. She wanted to shoot the moon and she missed.
     
  15. downndirty

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    You're not wrong: it's a huge risk. It's also a product of the Democrats not really having depth. That lack of a bench is killing them now, because for literally any other candidate this would likely be a layup of an election.

    At this stage, Biden being front and center is only going to hurt his chances. If I was his advisor, I would have him STFU and stay put, keeping the media down to a trickle. Let Trump make the first move, so to speak, and pivot from the virus to the election. I think Biden will be far more prepared and polished than Trump when it comes time to debate, and the strategy will be to make Trump look scatterbrained ahead of him accusing Biden of that.

    Dude, who the fuck elected Trump because of his ideas or his principles? Seriously?

    Republicans didn't trust the media because they figured out voters were embarrassed to support Trump and in some polls were lying about it. That says a lot about the relationship those folks have with the truth, and that may be one of the bigger problems with half the damned electorate: their vote means something different.
     
  16. GTE

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    You know way more about this stuff than I do, but I can't see that happening. It doesn't appear Biden can make it through a town hall meeting without some serious gaffes. I don't see him handling hours of debate with Trump prodding him.
     
  17. ODEN

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    Is it really a depth issue? Didn't they have nearly 30 candidates and 3-night debates in each round to start? I watched all of the debates for the most part, they suffered from bad ideas in many cases. Some of the more agreeable people in the debates, John Delaney comes to mind, people who could form a consensus (across the aisle), got no play time at all.
     
  18. Revengeofthenerds

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    Give trump enough rope (or enough open mics) and he'll hang himself before Biden does. For example, he's now trying to discredit Biden, by way if getting AOC on his environmental committee, because new trump fact: wind kills birds apparently. Full quote:

    article

    And before anyone points out the obvious, the number one killer of birds are tall buildings with lots of windows. Like, you know, trump tower.
     
  19. xrayvision

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    I just think the dems are looking for someone to "excite" them the way Obama did. No one will be Obama and a lot of people cant accept that. Bill Clinton had charm. John Kerry didn't. Outside of absolutely extreme political positions, people don't care about the issues as much as they care about how the candidate makes them feel. Obama was't some liberal dreamboat. But for some reason, women slide out of their seats at the sound of his voice and he's the most beloved democrat of all time. Point out the many areas where he fell short and heads go right in the sand.

    The GOP had a huge pool of candidates, but Trump spoke in a way that resonated with your average dipshit. It felt honest because no one spoke that way before at that high of a level. Obama spoke in a way that inspired people. Even if his words eventually meant very little, he was a good face for the role. Two sides of the same coin.
     
  20. ODEN

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    Trump sold me at the 3:00 mark. Real politicians need to be insulted this way daily for being pieces of shit. Government needs to be insulted by Trump's presence more often for their behavior. I hope Trump gets the opportunity to give Biden this treatment in the run-up to the election. It will probably be even uglier than this, Bush at least had all his mental faculties about him.