He's the President-Elect, he needs more than a wholly unsubstantiated tweet before he calls into question the integrity of US elections.
He's now alleging voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire, and California, and blaming the media for not covering it, even though there's zero source for any of it:
Maybe I'm missing something, but..... what's the benefit of trump talking about alleged voter fraud, when he won? Dude, even if you think the whole thing is rigged and a big crock of shit, you won. Shut up. Take your ball and go home.
Regardless of whether or not either side's claims of inaccurate results hold any weight, what's the idea behind concerns with voter fraud? Is it that there aren't currently any systems in place nation-wide to check whether someone's actually a citizen or not registered in more than one district or to end their registration after they die? Or is it that there are but people don't think those who check are doing their jobs well enough? Or is it that there are but people think they're looking the other way on these things, depending on their own party?
Because voter fraud is a problem and needs to be fixed. Same with voter suppression. If these problems didn't exist you might not be looking at president Trump in the first place(cough Bernie). Don't misunderstand me. The way he is going about it is terrible. He is, however, talking about real problems. The primaries are by far the worst. Maybe nothing will happen. Maybe after a long public discussion rational points will prevail and we'll make improvements. Maybe far crazier adjustments will be made to an already dysfunctional system. That's the fun part about electing the mystery box. Ooooo, just keeps you in suspense, doesn't it?
To refresh on three of the points made throughout the thread - - That non-citizens have voted. Very much alive non-citizens. Do you dispute the evidence for this? The studies are far from comprehensive. - That the DNC skewed the primary results in favor of Hillary, via several different methods. - That the RNC has increasingly revised it's own primary rules to protect the establishment. I'm not as worried about the general election fraud/suppression, as it won't factor into most elections. It's there, but I don't think it has changed anything except for the possible exception of Gore vs Bush. Actually, I'll take it further. Voter suppression in Florida did change that result. The fact that it has happened should be enough to encourage people to give a shit. I can't even give an estimate for how much the ridiculous primary rules on both sides messes with party nominations. That's before you even get into the shit that's actually illegal/violating the swamp of rules already there.
See that's ALL part of his immigration plan. Since it's such an embarrassment, nobody will be clamoring to get in anymore. No need to build a wall! Tada.
Sounds good as long as the people who promised to leave would deliver. Trump seriously needs to get the fuck off twitter though. He was doing well with the transition, in terms of public speaking, and then... yeah.
He's not a mystery box in regard to voter suppression when he puts Kris Kobach on his transition team. Or even when his stated campaign strategy was informal voter suppression. Besides that, has any sitting president purposefully made it harder for himself to get reelected? He is lying about an election he won. What is he going to say about an election he has lost when he controls the government? What is he going to do when he is the losing side of a peaceful transition of power? This isn't the time to laud him for being a mystery box. That's fucking stupid and scary. I am honestly surprised you remain so willfully blind at this point. Some of your posts actually edge towards it dawning on you how terrible he is by any sane measure. Then you go back to all this being lulz and posting vids like the one with the nazis marching soundtrack and the Auschwitz joke. Yup, nothing anti-Semitic about you and your Trump brethren. Not at all.
The video is a joke to make fun of people like you. Your response is the exact reason it's funny. It's nice you do believe in voter suppression. You don't believe in voter fraud though. You don't address the evidence, you just get emotional... again. No one has argued on here that Trump is some kind of saint. I've seen people consistently be 'willfully blind' about their own party. Then, they go well beyond the evidence and get neck deep in conspiracy theories about the other party. This is why politics in this country is so dysfunctional. When none of this nazi/kkk/kill all immigrants/etc shit happens, what are you going to say? I don't think what is happening in the world around you is particularly relevant to your beliefs. I mean that 100%.
I found out some things over the weekend that make me somewhat optimistic. Trump's meeting with Obama was supposed to be for 15 minutes, and it ended up being 90. After the meeting, Trump's views on Obamacare changed to, "it's not so bad". After the meeting, Crooked Hillary "is OK" and he's not going to push for her to be indicted. Obama has offered to help Trump well beyond the typical few-week transition period. Obama's initial plans were to fuck off and sell medium, white t-shirts and nuts. Now he's planning on staying in Washington for a couple of years. Coincidence? Trump "doesn't read", and yet Obama spends upwards of 5 hours a night reading briefings... imagine if Trump just kept Obama on doing what he's been doing, and handling all the briefs? I also heard a suggestion that was genuinely interesting; what if Trump puts Obama on the Supreme Court? He was a constitutional professor and is an ex-President... not bad credentials. In a way, assuming Trump appoints the right people, him being so under-qualified for the job might be the thing that saves him... he's in way over his head, so far so that he can't even try to do the job, and will get others to do it for him. Just imagine if one of those others was Obama?
I never said I didn't believe that voter fraud occurs. It does. But it doesn't in meaningful numbers. Voter suppression is a bigger problem. Really everything I see about voter fraud is just a canard to justify voter suppression. But hey, if I get emotional and don't weigh evidence doesn't that just mean I'm more likely to earn your vote for president?
The problem is that while Trump is highly suggestible and a powerful persona like Obama can impact him for a short time, Trump's inner circle is whispering much worse shit in his ear on a much more consistent basis. Not to mention the circles that any competent world leader is going to run around him on a regular basis that no advisers can protect against. Then there's the ultimate issue of the voters who put Trump in power demanding their pound of flesh from whoever it is they blame for all their ills. Trump has to deliver on that promise, or they'll find someone who will. I said it months ago: I'm far more afraid of the Trump electorate than Trump himself.
He's a lifelong democrat, and far more liberal than most republicans (any?) we currently have, which is why it's a bit ironic democrats are losing their shit over his election more so than any republican president in recent memory. He also recently - - Scaled back his immigration talk substantially, and even implied instituting a path to citizenship for non-violent illegals. - Said he plans to keep Obamacare in place until another healthcare plan is approved - Said he will be 'open minded' on climate change and admitted human contribution - Reinforced the anti-corruption and trade talk - Disavowed the racist groups supporting him in no unclear terms (did this beforehand and throughout the election, but it was worth doing again) - Openly supported gay marriage - Significantly loosened what was a pretty harsh stance on abortion before the election, although his talk is really ambiguous at the moment People are looking for reasons to up the panic levels to validate what were some pretty absurd beliefs they held before the election. He reacts before he thinks and it could end up being a big problem. That's for damn sure. Other world leaders have been running circles around Obama, just like they did with Bush, which is specifically why I think it's good he will be in an advisory role, but I doubt he has the kind of influence post-transition you're suggesting. Obama was a brilliant lawyer. He knows fuck all about economics. You can tell from listening to him talk. I don't think he's particularly astute on foreign policy either, and he broke every campaign promise in that regard. I feel unfair judging him so harshly on this because he really did inherit a mess, but his policy decisions... I don't know man, the results were not encouraging. The real question mark with Trump is whether he will stick to his guns in the areas he is strong in - namely trade, the tax code, and the economy - and then listen to advisers in the areas he's weak. I think we'll get a mix. I thought this was a pretty good summation of Obama's presidency. Dismiss the youtube pundits if you want, I find it far more insightful than anything on fox news or CNN. It also takes a look at just how hated Bush was at the end of his second term. Kind of incredible when you consider how loyal the republican base is to their candidates.
Both sides bitch about it, but the electoral college is a valuable component for this reason. It doesnt reduce or actively prevent it, but it mitigates the impact of it occurring. Personally any argument against a voter registration and producing an ID when casting a vote is a non-starter. Make government IDs free and enforce citizen requirements to vote. If people are feeling suppressed by that requirement maybe they need to get their shit together. But I dont think its too much to ask for the country to have a moment of collective clarity, even if its on this issue alone.
I agree with you, but they should also stop closing polling places in poor and minority populated areas. Its not exactly keeping people from being able to vote. But making it an unreasonable burden for people to get to the polls and then wait on lines for hours isn't right either.
Completely agree - there are a number of things that need to change for this to occur, and this is one of them.
Make it free and just register people when they get their ID. Once you're registered you can vote in the primaries, general election, or any other election within your district. You only have to 're-register' when you change addresses just like you already need to get a new ID. I hate the arguments about limiting certain voters to 'protect the party'. Your political opinions are not more valuable than any other citizen. Besides, those fiercely loyal to a party are often the people with the most bat shit insane views. Set a national limit on potential voters per district. Too many people and you have to put in another precinct. Then, if you really wanted to do it right, make gerrymandering illegal.
Well now he's ranting about CNN on twitter and retweeting sixteen year olds saying stupid shit at journalists.