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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Zach

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    In news nobody could have predicted Kanye has an album dropping friday
     
  2. Nettdata

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    My Name is Nobody.

    (Great flick, btw).

     
  3. AFHokie

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    FPS (Protective not Protection) only has about 1100 sworn officers for over 9k federal facilities across the entire US. FPS does in fact often need backup from other agencies.

    Typically, FPS relies on agreements and partnerships with state and local agencies to provide security and law enforcement services during demonstrations, etc. at federal property, but since the Portland PB has been told by the mayor's office to end or curtail those agreements, FPS has likely had to rely on assistance from ICE & CBP for manpower.

    Keep in mind, there's more going on than just "graffiti artists" run amok. Some serious crimes are attempted and committed under the guise of "protesting."

    Generally, but with exceptions, police are required by respective department policies to identify themselves as police when detaining or arresting someone. There is not however any federal statute compelling an officer to do so.

    Based on the above link and previous work experience with these agencies, I have no idea why they snatched someone off a public street without identifying themselves. I'm guessing the ACLU will have a field day with it.
     
  4. Nettdata

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    Part of me was wondering if it was the extraction of someone they had working on the inside.
     
  5. Aetius

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    In other news, Trump has issued a memo to the Department of Commerce instructing them to not include illegal immigrants in the census count. This is noteworthy for several reasons:
    1. It is just straight up admitting that the rationale they argued in federal court for including the citizenship question on the census was a complete lie.
    2. It is blatantly unconstitutional to a degree that's impressive even for Trump.
    3. It is impossible to implement because they have no count of illegal immigrants in the country. They would literally just be subtracting arbitrary numbers from the official count wherever they felt like it.
     
  6. AFHokie

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    Its possible, but from my experiences (arbitrarily not a lot) with CBP, they tend to view themselves more paramilitary due to border security being their primary mission. I can't say if they've always been like that, or if it evolved from post 9/11 changes.

    CBP has a rather broad latitude as far as LE powers (seriously, Google Title 19 US CFR) with regard to the US border zone, even towards US citizens. This zone extends inward 100 miles. You will find CBP at any Port of Entry, which includes international airports and CBP is commonly cited for violating US Citizen's 4th amendment rights. This link is from the ACLU, so its not unbiased, but it gives a pretty good overview of the issue: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitu...=2ahUKEwiVhfHGut_qAhWRoHIEHbxTCn4Q_h16BAgXEAI

    Personally, I think they do have some very good people, but their training, focus, & agency culture make them a horrible fit to pinch hit as traditional federal LEOs on the streets of any US city.

    The "mystery" cops on the streets here in DC last month were from the Bureau of Prisons. On the surface, they have similar training as far as riot control/response, but in a prison setting with convicted felons. It shouldn't surprise anyone that their deployment had issues.
     
  7. Rush-O-Matic

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    It's DC. If they were near the Capitol, they were surrounded by a bunch of felons.
     
  8. Aetius

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  9. Gravy

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    It’s worth pointing out that the thread is by a professor of Criminial Law and Procedure at Harvard Law.
     
  10. SouthernIdiot

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  11. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    Maybe he somehow came to grips that instead of the media wanting him to lose in the polls, he’s just plain fucking LOSING.
     
  12. Aetius

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    I'm guessing it was the poll that had him down 13 points to Biden in Florida because old people aren't exactly thrilled to die.
     
  13. Crown Royal

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    Really? I thought that’s WHY they go to Florida.
     
  14. xrayvision

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    I just think its as simple as a major event happened that he couldn't bullshit his way through and people are dying in huge numbers. He's bullshitted his way through literally everything in his life and its why he is such a spectacular failure as a person.

    Lots of things in the political world can be argued with a "both sides" mentality. Not this. Everyone knows someone who has Covid, or someone who died. Sometimes both. My friend from Dallas lost his dad the other day and his mom is not far behind. He can't go down to bury them. My brother in law has it. My elderly cousin has it.

    This crisis calls for actual leadership and orange Caligula can't see past how this is affecting HIM. If he had taken this seriously in any capacity, it would have provided political cover for the GOP to also take it seriously. But because they are cowards, they also did nothing.

    Thats why I think he polling badly in a lot of places.
     
  15. Revengeofthenerds

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    All he had to do, and I think I've said this before, is hold a press conference saying "We have the best doctors and scientists in the world, and we are backing them with all the the technological and financial resources they need. Here to explain to you what we are doing, and how we are going to fight this, are some of these top doctors, scientists and experts in the field." And then handed them the mic. And let them do what they do best, and told Americans to follow their guidance. And we would have been (relatively) fine, and his popularity would soar because he was basically MCing for the experts. He could take the credit for putting them together, removing the red tape, giving them the resources they needed.

    But his ego got in the way, and now there are hundreds of thousands dead, and millions infected. He shot himself in the foot because he couldn't get out of his own way. I don't know any trump supporters who's support for him as survived their own COVID infection, or worse, a COVID death of a friend or loved one. The remaining supporters I do know, have not had it directly impact them, so it's still this nebulous "someone else's" problem.
     
  16. downndirty

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    "I don't care until it happens to me" might as well be the Republican slogan at this point.

    He's polling badly because he's bad at being president. COVID-19 is the most egregious thing on his resume, but....for fuck's sakes, he was impeached. The shit that worked in 2016 isn't working now, and yeah...the 40m unemployed has something to do with that. Also, we figured out that "failing up" as a life strategy might get you the presidency, but it won't help you keep it, or be particularly good at it.

    Carl Sagan in Candle in the Dark-
    “I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”

    The issue that we have is....we fix us. We can't hire, elect, or appoint someone to fix this. Me, you and our neighbors all have to fix this. Joe Biden is a public servant, with 5 decades of experience, but he's just one fucking guy.

    Shitting on Trump is easy (and dear God, well-deserved), and when he's over...then what? The millions of people who voted for him aren't enemies of the state all of the sudden. The things Trump voters wanted to fix are still problems, chief among them the lack of real representation.

    I think history is being too kind to George W. Bush, too cruel to Obama (for now) and Trump will go down as the worst president in modern history, potentially ever. We love our celebrities and every generation has to learn the hard way that we should never elect them to public office. The GOP will do an about-face from the personality-driven politics of outrage, if and only if the Democrats relinquish the identity politics, which they desperately need to do.

    As an aside, I realized yesterday that given the spotlight on racism and racist acts going on right now, it's truly remarkable Obama was elected. At the time, it seemed a big deal, but not THAT big of a deal. Reading stories about Elijah Cummings and John Lewis, it became apparent just how difficult that road must have been. Also, just pointing out that Trump spent more time bragging about passing a cognitive test than Obama did on a fucking Nobel Peace Prize. I still don't agree that Obama deserved the prize for his accomplishments as president, but I am coming around to the idea that he won it because of the triumph of getting elected president as a person of color in what is now more apparent than ever, a deeply racist and divided society.
     
  17. Crown Royal

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    Trump and his supporters have had their day in the sun, both he and they are failures who embarrassed your country internationally, forever. The people who still support him are simply reckless and stupid at this point. No, they are not enemies of the state. But when Trump IS finally gone, whenever that may be, the Americans who hated him are going to want his supporters to atone for that support. They will try to “cancel” all of them. That stupid red hat will be the next Confederate flag.
     
    #13537 Crown Royal, Jul 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  18. xrayvision

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    I think there will be a lot of “Ya know, I never really liked the guy. But who could have seen it going the way it did?” or just flat out denying they ever actually supported him at all. I just want my pound of flesh from the GOP senators and congress people. Not the actual citizens. Personally, I will never let my dad live down his support for Trump. He was manipulated by Facebook memes and Fox News. No matter how much family intervention we attempted, some combination of Benghazi and emails was enough to plug his ears.
     
  19. Revengeofthenerds

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    So turns out trumpers get really defensive when you ask them where their wall is. I’m sick of hearing how Biden is gonna take all the guns and you’ll never be able to own one again. Tried using logic and saying that’s a platform for sure, but it’s for the legislature to decide and with a stacked republic Supreme Court there’s no way it’ll ever happen. “Just like your precious wall. Popular concept, where is it though?”
     
  20. GTE

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    Maybe it's just the bubble of northern California that I live in, but all the people who were on the Trump train in 2016 are still on it but even more vocal now. Buddy of mine just had a party for his kids 16 bday. It might as well of been a Trump rally. Trump flags, banners, shirts, hats etc.
    Half think the virus is a hoax and the other half think the numbers are completely false and just designed to bring down the economy as that's the only way the Left can beat Trump.