Putin wants Assad in power. I'm not necessarily in favor of that, but it is preferable to a perpetual war, Kurdish power, or ISIS. Some of these dictators suck, but the constant 'help' from the United States is often making the situation worse. The CIA/American military has successfully overthrown a lot of governments and installed better regimes in their place. The results in the middle east have been pretty mixed with a lot of bodies to get the better 'establishment' in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq has actually gone better, although it's more news catching as of late. There is practically no way to control Afghanistan without killing damn near everyone outside of the capital. Putin wants Assad for the same reason the pentagon doesn't want Assad though. Both America and Russia have been treating the entire region like a chessboard for global dominance for several decades. Yes, I believe American values are superior in this instance, but goddamn has pushing them so hard had some disastrous results. Also, some of the weapons deals are just straight up incompetent. In the gangster politics of the middle east they will tell you whatever the fuck it is they think you want to hear to get them. I really hope we start cutting ties with Saudi Arabia at some point in the near future. Their government is arguably the worst of the whole lot.
I still want to see how they arrived at this conclusion. I put the CIA in the same category as the NSA. Not exactly bastions of truth and transparency. By not exactly, I mean not at all and they should know that people with functioning brains don't trust them. Separately, no matter what anyone says, if the roles were reversed the reactions would be the exact same as we are seeing now. If it had been Trump who was thrown in the trick bag then Democrats would be telling Republicans to just deal with the fact that he was a shit candidate and deserved to lose. Republicans in return would be having a wall-eyed screaming shit fit like the Democrats are right now. In terms of the Joint Armed Services statement: this just reinforces how important it is to ensure IS protocol are followed. Too bad we have no interest in enforcing it. If we did, Clinton would be in prison right now. Nobody wants to face that fact but that is the reality; you can't complain that there was outside tampering in to your unsecured server and also expect not to be held accountable for being the source of your own problem.
The CIA certainly isn't immune to partisanship, but that looked genuine to me. Start protecting classified information properly. If they have to give some of these windbags, including the senators and cabinet officials a few computer classes then do it already. Hillary looked like the most careless of the lot, but she was also the most high profile and when you have a secretary of state fucking up like that it makes me think it's not an isolated incident. When she approved a CIA drone strike from her cell phone did she receive a message back asking "What the fuck are you doing, you idiot?" because she should have, and I kind of doubt that's how it went down. I agree, but would you actually want that to happen? Given the repercussions and potential civil unrest that could follow I don't think it's worth it. I do wish she would just crawl into a hole and die already. It's damn annoying to hear complaining about the dangers of fake news from a world class liar, and an official who led the DNC to have far more media influence than they ever should have; what an absolute cunt.
I have no love for Clinton, but she'd be 1000x better than the incoming Trump disaster. We've reached the point where the best case scenario for a Trump administration is a self-aggrandizing kleptocracy. I have my fingers crossed for a hail-mary giving it to a Republican who understands climate change. Give me that and the GOP can wreck everything else about the country for four years and we'll be ok.
Think about your grandparents. Think about how tech-savvy they are. We are run by your grandparents cohort in the information age. These people couldn't connect their computers to their own wifi at their houses, they would also call the goddamn geek squad if they accidentally hit the input button on their TV remote. Yet, here they are managing email accounts handling classified data. Makes perfect sense. Clinton in prison. Yes I do. I want fucking accountability already. Enough is enough. We live in an age where you can't hide the bullshit like you could in the past and change needs to start somewhere. Is it fair to start with Clinton? No; but it has to start somewhere. Make her the example and hold EVERYONE to the standard. Our country is a fucking disaster and at some point we need to start acting like adults and doing what's right. If we don't, I will just keep doing my part to bring more chaos. If people won't reform it then I say we break it and start again.
Actually, the more I think about it you're right, although my reasons are slightly different than your own. If it was just about cutting the line somewhere I feel like they could do it with the next person who violates the law and that will cause less civil unrest, but you know what, Hillary is so fucking bad - just let the morons and assholes protest. They did it after they lost the election. They are going to panic about Trump the entire 4 years anyway, no matter what happens. Add up the shit this bitch did: - Treason through the foundation, which led to weapons that accidentally got into the hands of a terrorist empire, among other things. - Pushed several news outlets to lie for her, CNN and Huffpo were the worst. - Abused her control over the DNC to defeat her political opponent in the primaries. - Deleted 30,000+ e-mails under subpoena and then had her staff plead the 5th, don't give me this "we don't know if she was involved in wiping them" shit. - After members of the media (who were working directly for her) or DNC got caught in ethical quandaries she just shuffled them around. She's so fucking shameless she wouldn't even wait until after the election. - Paid brawlers to go to the rallies of political opponents to make the other supporters look bad. We don't know if it was just the DNC, or if she was directly involved, but I would guess, yes, she was. Was there any investigation after the video of the DNC members surfaced? NOPE. The source is super partisan, but still - that shit came right our of their mouths. You can't just rationalize that away. There's more of course, there's fucking always more with Hillary, but the one that pisses me off the most of all is the one that isn't illegal and that was her campaign strategy. What she did was socially irresponsible, on so many levels. It's one thing when the media does it on their own, to dial up the outrage for their rabid viewers. Ok, that's unethical. However, she used the media, and perpetuated a false narrative the entire campaign about how half the country (main the 'white' ones) were gathering around a Hitler-esque persona because they hated women or minorities, or all of the above. That is fucked up, and it had a major effect on people. Trump played on fears to an extent too, so does EVERY politician to a point, but take a look at the difference. Trump has gaffes, and I think he is ignorant on some minority issues, but look at the actual 'hatred'. - Illegal immigration. Other than one gaffe, his message was consistently - many of them are good people, but criminals are getting across the border as well and we need to tighten up security. There is an actual case for this. You can argue he exaggerated, but he didn't just make that shit up. - Islamophobia. He said he wanted surveillance on suspected mosques. We're ALREADY doing that. That's what the Patriot Act was for, which Hillary supported. He said he wanted to put a temporary ban on Muslim entrance, and then reduced it to certain regions. I don't totally agree with him on this, but terrorism is an actual thing that, you know, fucking happens. He takes too hard line of a stance, but this isn't 'mass hatred'. - He hates the gays - never happened - He hates the blacks - never happened - He hates the jews - never happened - He hates latinos - see illegal immigration/never happened She vomited this stuff out constantly in every outlet she could because she knew her record was a disaster, and her best shot at winning was to stir up fear and paranoia. Someone in her position doing that has a real effect on people, and it's an incredibly dirt bag thing to do. Sure, you could say that's just politics and to a point you would be right, but can anyone name a single American politician they've seen in their lifetime who even approached the extent of what she did? It wasn't just Trump of course, she constantly went out of her way to convince people that that was why most of his supporters were voting for him. She's just such an awful human being, and the way she comes out with that Orwellian "Stronger together" nonsense makes me want to puke. I know Obama is going to pardon her at the end of his term, so she definitely will not go to prison. I can't see congress overruling the pardon, and Trump looks to have made it clear he's going to let it go because the shake up and civil unrest it would cause is more bullshit than he wants to deal with. We're still dealing with the after effects of her sociopathic psycho campaign strategy, and I expect we will be for awhile.
But she didnt win. And thats the key factor here. Despite the fawning over her by the press, despite the dubious scientific polling, and despite all predictive measures, she didnt win. I actually dont want Hillary to be prosecuted. I think its important to differentiate between an actual crime and ethical deficiencies. She may have a laundry list of ethical deficiencies, but that doesnt necessarily mean she broke the law. And if she did, she deserves the same presumption of innocence that anyone deserves. And whats the best-case outcome here? We will have a major political figure jailed. The appearance of that would be terrible, even if its rational and legitimate. Trump would be wise to avoid that and just move forward. He could never have a shred of success in his presidency if he had his AG go after her. It was the right course for Gerald Ford to pardon Nixon, and it will be the right course if Obama does the same for her. We dont have to feel good about it, but we need to accept it. She has been humiliated and her aspirations destroyed. Thats enough. I get that its the powerful protecting the powerful. But I think there is a bigger picture here that should be considered. Hillary Clinton is done. Let the nation move forward.
While I understand your argument for not jailing her, how can you think it's possible she never broke the law? Anyway, it's not that I want a witch hunt, every unethical action from any politician hounded until the end, but she's just that terrible. I wish people were less stupid and didn't lap up everything her campaign pumped out, but that's not the world we live in and it's why you need leaders with at least some ethical standards. Trump will let it go, I'm 99% sure. Eg: On the 60 min interview "I'll give you a definitive answer next time I do 60 min." We already know what the answer will be.
I don't know how you can froth at the mouth over Hillary the way you do, but look at Trump and just shrug.
All I am looking for is that we treat Hillary the same way we would treat a mid-level airmen intel analyst who egregiously mishandles classified material by removing it from secured servers and then transmitting it across unsecured servers. Or how about treat her the way a Navy nuke student is treated if they take their course materials out of the school. Give her the same treatment. That's all. I want the Government to start sending the message that the political class is not any better than anyone else and that they will be held to the same standard. If they could even do that, it would be earth-shattering because it is so contra to the way the Government behaves.
That's the real thing for me... the whole classified information stuff. It does not matter what your intent was, or what your beliefs were... if you fuck up with secret docs/info, you go down. It's written specifically like that... the only thing that matters is what the end result is. The end result is that you ran an email server that you weren't allowed to that had secret info on it? Jail. When I went through my secrecy training for the minor clearances I had in the military, that was the one big constant that was drilled into our heads... doesn't matter how it happens, if it happens, you're fucked. There are people in jail right now because of exactly that. She is being treated specially, and this is the thing that really pisses me off. It might be different if she showed some sort of remorse, or apologized, but she's not... she's playing stupid... and that, more than anything else, pisses me right the fuck off, and makes me hope she rots in jail.
I agree, and we know what her intent was when she wiped the evidence. We know what her intent was with the foundation, and so many other crimes. If a person fucks up accidentally, they should still go down, but there's some leeway towards making a mistake, in my mind. If it was an accident, she should have been thrown out of office and banned from future public posts. The way she did it, she should go to jail. If it was a general everyone would agree, but Hillary told idiots their shit doesn't stink and that's supposed to give her a pass or something.
Like David Patreus, who despite being convicted of mishandling classified information was still somehow being considered for Secretary of State? This "standing on principle" nonsense is such a transparent lie.
No shit, that is the exact problem people have. He did a fraction of what Hillary did, but yes, sack the motherfucker and deny him the seat. He should be legally banned. You keep trying to make this into "We think Trump is perfect." but no one thinks that.
I don't think you think Trump is perfect. I think you are so irrationally obsessed with Hillary Clinton you are incapable of appreciating how truly horrible Trump is. https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...-petraeus-as-contender-for-secretary-of-state
Would that be the part where he starts a war with China, hires the KKK, is in bed with nazis, commits the biggest kleptocracy of all time, destroys our economy because China is mad, is Putin's puppet, never made any money as a businessman, appoints only retards to his cabinet, or when he finally deports all the Muslims? I'm just being real. Yeah, I've heard it, and I've judged it, and decided liberalism is at an all time unprecedented level of dumb. Posters on here have insinuated all of the above and I'm not sold on it. As for the actual criticism I have of him, and why I thought he was a lesser of evils, I would direct you back in the thread.
I dont disagree, but I think extracting that extra pound of flesh out of her will be not beneficial to anyone. Trump is already the most polarizing president-elects in modern American history. He has a chance to do some good in the world, which I hope he does, but prosecuting her would be nothing but counterproductive. I think she deserves justice, but the bigger picture is more important. That being said, I think her campaigns post-election conduct has been quite undignified. She first concedes and demands everyone accept the outcome. Then latches on to Jill Steins attempt to defraud voters in a dubious recount effort. Now she supports electors ignoring the will of the people they represent. And of course, the media is letting her get away with it.
That's an excellent point. They should be treated the same. Patreus avoided felony charges by pleading guilty, paid a fine and served two years probation.