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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. GTE

    GTE
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    I think a lot of covid shit has been heaped on Trump. Did he handle it well? No. Did he offer good leadership? No. Did he downplay it to try and keep the economy going? (Which was his ticket to a 2nd term) Yes. Did his actions cause a loss of American lives? 100% yes.

    However, the majority of the US has accepted it for months now. Maybe some holdouts in the flyover states but definitely in the dark blue coastal states. So why is it that CA and NY are exploding in cases? CA locked down hard and early. Record breaking cases are now the norm. NY had a bad, bad flash but then "had it under control" Nope, record cases now for them also.

    I know he affected the outcome early, but if Biden had become Pres in the fall, how different would these numbers look? And if noticeable lower, how?
     
  2. xrayvision

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    It’s about leadership and how many less deaths might there have been if it was just handled even remotely similar to other countries around the world. Yes, there are spikes happening in places and a lot of people are dying. But we also have a massive dipshit problem in this country that’s encouraged by leaders at the top. You have liberal politicians not practicing what they preach which pisses people off. And you have Trump people basically going around protesting mask wearing and spitting on people. Proper leadership and financial support could have saved a lot of lives.
     
  3. Revengeofthenerds

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  4. Aetius

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  5. Revengeofthenerds

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    Also, get ready to become very familiar with the nuances of “felony-murder.”

    since murder trials are expensive, I anticipate some of these fuckers being charged with it, then plea out to a lesser charge. The prosecution strategy being basically to threaten them with their life in jail and let them admit to a sentence that mandates some serious fines and/or jail time instead.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    It’s been nearly a decade since the Vancouver riot taught the world that the internet does not forget, does not forgive and does not back down from fucking assholes who terrorize society.

    People have learned nothing since then.
     
  7. toytoy88

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    The internet in their blood lust has also never made a mistake and fucked up/ruined the life of an innocent person.
     
  8. SouthernIdiot

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  9. Crown Royal

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    With a little luck, he’ll hopefully be forced out of the senate soon and be shit on for the rest of his miserable life. Cruz too. These are the people to wish death upon, and horribly.
     
  10. Dcc001

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    Just so we’re clear, everyone in the “fuck all those people, they should all hang,” boat acknowledges that this attitude is a straight line drawing to civil war, right? Half the country won’t tolerate being ignored and shit on so...you’re okay with combative violence until someone wins and you all submit to that winner?
     
  11. NatCH

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    “Welcome! Thank you for rejoining reality and wanting to be better. Right this way, right up against this wall here...”
     
  12. Juice

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    It’s probably the worst possible attitude to have. Instead of trying to bring the public together, let’s punish 70 million people. Good times.

    As far as Trump and COVID deaths, put every single one at his feet is a little silly. Yeah, I know plenty of Democratic leaders had similar perspectives at the beginning and were fake-outraged at the China travel ban Those people are stupid. I also understand that plenty of state leaderships on both sides of the aisle had and continue to have terrible response policies. However, that is pretty much irrelevant in relation to Trump’s leadership on the issue.

    There’s no doubt that his actions had a dramatic affect on the public’s response and individual actions (i.e. wearing a mask, social distancing, etc.). His response was pure, muddled confusion with no clear outline, guidance or consistency. He called the whole thing hoax far into the pandemic and downplayed it even after he himself got COVID. He fought with the doctors on his team, contradicted the CDC, bullshitted about mask wearing and the list could go on forever. Leadership matters and the words and temperament of those leaders matter. People have their own agency and are primarily responsible for their actions, but when they turn the administration for guidance on how to respond and that response is a fucking joke, is anyone else really to blame? He could have been the greatest president in history up until the pandemic and he still deserved to lose because of it.
     
  13. AbsentMindedProf

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    I've been struggling with this sentiment a lot lately. If you haven't been able to tell by my infrequent posting I have very left-wing political views. However, I live in a fairly conservative major city in the midwest (it's Cincinnati) and have plenty of friends that have conservative political views. It's frankly a struggle to remind myself that the people I care about who are conservatives are not represented by the people who stormed the capitol. Unfortunately, I do think moderate conservatives are complicit in what happened Wednesday. If more moderate conservatives had been outspoken in against the idea that the election was "stolen" or "fraud", then it would not have gotten to this point. For the past couple years my conservative friends have had a lot to say about the BLM protests and COVID on social media, not so much yesterday. The condemnation of this wing of the conservative base has to come most strongly from other conservatives. They are the ones that have to stand up and loudly say that these people do not represent them or what they stand for. I have not yet seen that in my social circle, and if just coming from "liberals" it's going to keep getting worse. 147 republican congressmen/women voted in favor of objecting to the electoral college certification. That is 70% who support the idea that there may have been fraud in an election that has been certified by the individual states, audited by the states, and had objections heard and rejected by the courts of those states. When people talk about coming together and healing the divide it always seems to be directed towards liberals, but I think conservatives have a lot of ground they need to cover if we're going see any progress towards that.
     
  14. Misanthropic

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    I despise Donald Trump with every fiber of my being, and agree completely with Dcc001 and Juice. Those involved in the chaos in DC should be held accountable for their actions as the law dictates. Trump should be held accountable, and frankly, after he has left office should be held accountable for any laws he has broken through his businesses or campaign shenanigans.

    But I know too many truly good people who voted for Trump and who don’t agree with many Democrat policies to condemn all of them, and it’s not my place to do that. None of my conservative friends would have participated in storming the capital, and think those people are nuts.

    We MUST punish those who broke the law, shine a light on the crazy conspiracies and discredit them, but we can’t simply declare that half of our fellow citizens, and their points of view.

    Ive spent my whole life recognizing that hardly anyone holds all of my same beliefs. I would have lost my mind a long time ago if I didn’t accept that fact.
     
  15. Revengeofthenerds

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    That sound you heard was the lucrative prospects of speaking engagement and media deals for Trump crashing down at once.

    not only is he gonna be fighting every lawsuit every attorney can think of to throw at him (there’s gonna be A LOT of attorneys getting rich off prosecuting him) — he’s also gonna go broke doing it
     
  16. Hoosiermess

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    I see this critique a lot and while I know the US could have handled this better despite our president (whoever that is) having limited power (meaning he cannot shut down states or demand we all wear masks). I grabbed the top six European countries off of the John's Hopkins site.

    England 56 million population
    France 67 million
    Italy 60 million
    Spain 47 million
    Germany 83 million
    Poland 38 million
    Roughly 13.1 million cases out of about 350 million population and 344,299 deaths.

    They have the ability to shut down borders into much smaller bubbles, though density in cities is higher but I sure don't see that they are doing much better than the US. Those are pretty similar numbers aside from total cases.
     
  17. Misanthropic

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    You’re conveniently ignoring that those are indeed a group of separate countries that you’re comparing to one country, the United States. You’re also continuing a logical fallacy that the right loves to engage in- Those countries didn’t handle things properly, therefore how could we?

    Many others have posted about how we could have handled it differently. Simply look at how Operation Warp speed did nothing to advance the development of a vaccine, and how distribution of the vaccine is currently floundering.
     
  18. Hoosiermess

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    I'm not ignoring that they are different countries. That should make it easier to isolate (think New Zealand, though that is clearly best case for a pandemic) and slow the virus down. I get that most of us on the board are not from Europe so we focus here, my point is that the US is on par with a similar sized chunk of the EU despite their advantage of being separate countries.

    Short version, I don't get all the hate, we could do better but we get compared to the EU a lot, why would we expect to do any better?
     
  19. Juice

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    That heavily depends on what metric you’re using. For deaths per 1 million people, the US is 13th. For day-over-day positive infection rate and total number of reported cases, the US is first and it’s not even close.
     
  20. xrayvision

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    We lost like 4,000 people yesterday. And that number is fairly consistent over the last few weeks.