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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Aetius

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    The Republican attack on Biden for following through on Trump's plan is shamelessly hypocritical, even for them. Trump literally campaigned on the idea of a total and nearly-immediate withdrawal. God knows how many pro-Trump arguments I saw that Trump would end "forever wars" but Biden would continue them. Now that it actually happened under another President however, it's suddenly the worst policy in the world, even though a good chunk of it was already fait accompli before Biden even took office.
     
  2. Dcc001

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    So fellow Canadians...it looks like we have a federal election on September 20th. Anyone else completely at a loss on who they'll vote for?
     
  3. GcDiaz

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    Did you notice how he and the RNC have deleted any pro-withdrawal posts from their respective sites? They're gonna memory hole their base into thinking they were never for it, nah uh.
     
  4. Nettdata

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    They're all morons.
     
  5. Crown Royal

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    It’s all a question of what side do you want served with your shit sandwich.
     
  6. Dcc001

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    Our current rep, Marilyn Gladu, is such an amazing person that she thinks conversion therapy for gay kids isn't something that should be condemned. Oh, and she waded into the middle of the Palestinian/Israeli negotiations last year, for some reason. Plus she's directly threatened members of our city counsel when they disagree with her, saying things like, "Are you sure you want to have me as an enemy?" So that kind of rules out the Conservative vote.

    The liberals? Okay, but then you're indirectly giving Trudeau another 3-5 years. Hard pass.

    The NDP are essentially socialists and I disagree with their entire platform. The Green party has no idea how an economy runs, and I disagree with their platform. The Bloc are a fringe separatist party with ties only to Quebec, and I disagree with their platform.

    There's the People's Party of Canada, I guess, but I have two issues there: first, there seems to be some thinly veiled racist dog-whistling going on. And second, while they don't come out and pick a side, they are almost certainly anti-abortion (which is my ride or die decider in most cases).

    So yeah. I have no idea.
     
  7. Nettdata

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    I wish the Rhino party was still a thing.
     
  8. kindalas

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    The Liberals led us into a Pandemic, they should also lead us out of it.

    They also have a solid record of fiscal responsibility.

    Because in my lifetime only the liberals had a balanced budget and they led the massive economic growth of the 90s I just wish they hadn't of fucked us on Electoral Reform.

    And I'll never vote conservative. Provincially they sold the 407 (at a loss) guaranteeing that Toronto would forever be dependent on the Province for highway money all because they had linked a balanced provincial budget to the bonuses and federally they won't admit that climate change is real. Despite their leader pushing them to focus on reality and they can't seem to affirm that being pro-choice is a fundamental Canadian value.
     
  9. wexton

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    I thought that provincial and federal were 2 separate parties?
     
  10. Dcc001

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    Is...this serious or sarcasm? Justin Trudeau has spent more money than every other Prime Minister in history. He has incurred more debt than any other PM in history. They're spending so much the debt will NEVER be paid. His financial record as a leader is appalling.

    If somehow Doug Ford was both running for PM and in my riding, I'd vote for him without hesitation. But we don't elect leaders directly, so...
     
  11. Dcc001

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    It's the same party with a different group of people. Ontario currently has a Conservative government at the provincial level, and of course Canada (until Sept 20) has a minority-lead Liberal government. That means that, while the liberals hold more seats than anyone else, they do not have a majority. Consequently they need to team up with another party to move legislation, and this time around it's been the NDP they've compromised with.
     
  12. kindalas

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    This serious, the debt generation over the pandemic needs to be examined like the debt we generated during WWI and WWII and not like the debt generation that has been made during normal years.

    It is also disingenuous to assign this debt generation at Trudeau's feet when he required the other parties to generate that debt.

    Also our debt generation during the pandemic is on par with the debt generated by other developed countries and it is looking like they spent that money in the right places. Considering that we are doing extremely well in our early COVID recovery steps.

    When we also look at the debt generation the major missteps have all been provincial. In Ontario alone Billions of Dollars that was supposed to be spent is still just sitting in accounts waiting for the next pandemic.

    As far as finances at the Federal level the only thing that really matters is the rate of debt generation compared to the countries that we trade with. If all of these countries are printing money at the same relative rate as us then our dollar will maintain it's value.

    We are seeing cases of artificial inflation because of supply side disruptions and because of changes in spending priorities by people who instead of spending thousands of dollars on vacations or spending that money on renovations, pools and other household improvements.

    But we aren't seeing the runaway inflation that would occur if we were accruing this debt for no reason.

    When you say that you wish that Doug Ford was running for PM as the leader of the Federal Conservatives I realize that your understanding of finance and government is just not there. Doug Ford when he got into power in 2018 managed to grow the debt from 3.7 Billion to 7.4 Billion in 2018-19 and then to 8.7 Billion in 2019-2020 so he managed to more then double the debt before the pandemic arrived where we are now looking at a debt of 35 to 40 Billion.

    When I say that the Liberals are the only party to have had a balanced budget in my lifetime I mean that the Conservatives have preached financial responsibility and have never once managed to deliver.

    The Liberals have just delivered and I don't see any signs that the party that has never managed to balance a budget is going to suddenly learn how to do it.

    The Federal Conservatives are currently struggling with the consequences of the "unite the right" push from the early 2000s, they have to many anti science, anti choice and regressive members at their core and they need to sort that shit out before they will ever appeal to the majority of Canadians who don't vote for them.

    They couldn't even get their shit together to decide that climate change was real. After O'Toole gave a speech about the importance recognizing it and how moving forward and accepting science is the only way to appeal to Canadians.

    Instead we get Willy Wonka styled attacks against Trudeau.

    If the were serious about forming a Government they would have led with a detailed plan of action and an accounting for the things they did as part of a minority government during a pandemic to push the issues that were important to them.

    But they don't have confidence in their achievements, they don't have a plan, and they don't even have confidence in their leader.

    The party is a mess and it'll take 4-8 years of hard work for them to figure out a way to be a viable party.

    Right now the have as much chance of forming a government as the Bloq.
     
  13. kindalas

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    They are the same but different.

    Separate structures but they have the same branding and their messaging is coordinated.

    I try to keep my issues with the parties focused on the level of government going up for election.

    But when it comes to their principals of governance and their ideologies it is all coming from the same playbook.
     
  14. Nettdata

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    I agree. Debt and spending shouldn't be included as a factor for this election in my opinion.

    And I honestly think Trudeau did a great job with the vaccination stuff. We're the most vaccinated country on the planet right now. That didn't happen by accident, despite a few missteps early on while everyone in the world was figuring shit out, and the MSM and other parties were Jonesing for a story to show how fucked up everything was. Never mind dealing with the US border closures, trade issues with Trump, etc.

    He did some shit I wasn't happy about, but all in all I am not complaining.
     
  15. wexton

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    Ah ok,. It is different out west.
     
  16. Dcc001

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    The stats I quoted were before COVID and the lockdowns (February 2020). So BEFORE the pandemic, he had hit those targets: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/trudeau-sets-another-record-and-not-in-a-good-way
    (I know, the Fraser Institute, but the numbers appear to be accurate)
    I was speaking more in terms of liking him as a leader in general than I was directing my comment at his spending record. What Ford has done is simply to continue what the McGuinty (Liberal) and Wynne (Liberal) governments did before him: spend without regard for a balanced budget. There's no party (provincially) who has decorated themselves in glory here.
    I go back to my original point: I have no idea how to vote in this one. Each party has such shitty characteristics and bad track records.
     
  17. Dcc001

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    As an aside: it really irks me that all the parties are trying to buy this election. With money that they are borrowing form the next three generations. If someone would have the balls to stand up and say, "You get no more bail-outs. There's no more cheques. Get off of welfare and go back to work. Pay for your own daycare and we aren't spending on anything until we get the banking back in line," I think it would probably go over well, particularly with small business. But what do I know.
     
  18. GTE

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    One would think but it's no different than down here. Pretty sure California is getting ready to roll out their 4th stimulus check*. In a state where businesses are starving for workers.

    Side note - My brother just got some child tax credit for about a grand on Friday. They don't need the money so they spent almost $600 at a winery on Saturday. All in, I think he's received ~$20k in stimulus payments, but hey, keep 'em coming, right?
     
  19. wexton

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    I get the child care thing, i don't need affordable childcare. I just need fucking child care.
     
  20. Volo

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    NDP, not that it’ll matter in my riding.

    The Liberals shit the bed, not coming remotely close to living up to my expectations, O’Toole and his merry band of dipshits couldn’t govern the opening of a gas station, and the Green Party is outdated and eroding from within.

    I don’t think Singh is a solid leader yet, but at this point Id like for him to have a chance.