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Finance Thread

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by ryrob, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Nettdata

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  2. Binary

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    It's fucking astonishing to me to see the number of people who think crypto is a "savings account."

    I belong to a few digital nomad communities and I very commonly see people recommend that you keep your emergency savings in "stable" coins like Bitcoin, because it's easier to not deal with national banks while you're traveling.

    Uh huh. Stable. The first thing I think of when I consider my emergency savings account is that I want it fluctuating by 50% in the period of a week.
    upload_2021-9-7_19-36-28.png
     
  3. RyanMilliron

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    Ive actually seen the bank records of one woman who maxed out her credit cards and took out an equity line on her home for $30k to buy more Bitcoin.

    When dogecoin was being pumped, it should’ve been a wake up call to people. How can a joke coin be given value?

    The proof of work concept with blockchain is so fascinating that it’s easy to ignore the concept of intrinsic valuation. It’s analogous to me cutting your grass. You give me a paper airplane.

    I cut more grass and get more paper airplanes.
    Then someone comes and says I can exchange those paper airplanes for real money because of the value I created with my work.

    The value of those paper airplanes is then bid up by speculators.

    Everyone is completely ignoring that the coins are worthless. Why would I assign value to something I give you for work you already did for me, without any real asset or backing?

    The SEC should’ve stepped in a long time ago. You can almost overlay the crypto market against the dot com bubble. With the right scale, they look incredibly similar.

    Both bid up by mania, no real strategy to deliver value or monetization.
     
  4. Binary

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    That's no different than any other non-government-backed resource.

    Gemstones are rare but most have very little intrinsic value. Same with many precious metals. But nobody would look at you that oddly if you accepted a handful of rubies for your lawn maintenance services, because as a society we've agreed that these rare items have a value. Hell, even things that are ostensibly tied to real value, like stocks or homes, are often far less linked to actual value than they are a public perception.

    I'm not sure what kind of value or monetization you're even referring to. It's a currency, neither of those things apply. The currency is the endgame.
     
  5. bewildered

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    What are you idiots opinion on using Computershare to hold your shares? Do you think there's a chance of getting boned if you do not have verified shares if this whole GME thing blows up?
     
  6. Nettdata

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    I bought one share from CS just so I could get a paper certificate (which I have framed).

    The shares you have in a "real" brokerage account will be real, to you, period. It's not about you getting boned because they're not in CS.

    The whole thing about doing a direct registered share is it removes that share from the available pool, reducing the available number to loan out.

    In the end, my broker, TD, does not lend out my shares, and they have verified that I have the shares that I've paid for. That's all I need to know.

    If you're using some sketchy broker like Robin Hood or others, they still owe you the share, even though they might not have it on hand.

    In the end, responsibility moves up the chain... if RH fails, then their prime broker is on the hook, then the market maker is on hook, etc, all the way up to the DTCC as a group.

    This responsibility chain is why a huge number of "how do we go bankrupt in a controlled and orderly manner rather than blow everything up" rules put in place by the DTCC over the past few months.


    Now, all that being said, I'm just a fucking moron with more money to invest than brains... so call your broker, ask them... see what they have to say. They are (supposed to be) the pros.
     
  7. toytoy88

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    Does TD restrict the loaning of shares automatically or did you have to instruct them not to? I use TD and one of my holdings is being shorted to hell (Usually 60-70% each day) and I'd like to make sure my shares are not used for that.
     
  8. Nettdata

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    I'm using TD Canada, which is probably different than your TD Ameritrade.

    My default is to not lend shares/securities. I did not have to instruct them to do that, but I verified that was the case not too long ago.
     
  9. bewildered

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    We use Vanguard and Fidelity which afaik do not loan shares from our cash purchases. I will have to communicate with their customer service to double check that. @Nettdata your reply helps clear up some things. I was not sure if being issued a synthetic share would become my problem. It also sheds some light onto the comments I see encouraging moving to CS to trigger moass. Some action would probably be forced if the verified shares in CS meet or exceed the number issued by GameStop.
     
  10. Nettdata

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    CS is the official issuer of shares for GS.

    If they have the full outstanding float of shares direct registered with them, then it can trigger a "reconciliation" event that could trigger MOASS.
     
  11. bewildered

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    Makes sense.

    I'm not familiar enough with all the industry lingo but I've been following along and that's a good summation.
     
  12. RyanMilliron

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    Crypto has an identity crisis. Is it a digital asset or a currency? If the blockchain of Bitcoin is so great, where's the product of its work? Are the miners supporting substantive transactions?
    Bitcoin mining uses more than 130 terawatt hours of power a year now...Alot of countries use less than that. Where are the societal changes of all that?

    If blockchains were really successful, it would/should put industries and companies out of business with that kind of energy consumption. But it hasn't. A lot of massive companies are researching blockchain, but I haven't seen much adoption of existing platforms. That's what I'm referring to by value.

    Also...Blackstone got spooked off the Soho China deal. The market seems to be ignoring some massive red flags in China.
     
  13. Juice

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    5 years ago there were theorized uses for blockchain other than cryptocurrencies. 5 years later there really hasn't been many other large-scale applications. The main issue in terms of CO2 emissions (and why it has no real other applications) is with the Proof-of-Work component of mining. That's why the requirements for successful mining operations have grown exponentially from single CPUs in a home computer to GPUs to ASIC-based systems. The only reason it still exists is because the value of crypto has been insanely inflated. Other use cases would need to provide enough value to overcome the continually growing cost.
     
  14. Revengeofthenerds

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    Violence if no MOASS?

    I don’t have enough skin in the game to care too much about it, but this is the first I’ve heard of people potentially taking action. Think they’re getting desperate with no returns on money they couldn’t afford to gamble?
     
  15. Nettdata

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    Oh please. That’s just a stupid post on Reddit and deserves no weight.
     
  16. Revengeofthenerds

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    I just wonder how many people have a whole lot of cash into this thinking it’s gonna happen by XYZ time, and they are starting to get impatient because they kinda need that money. Need or want or just gambled more than they can afford to lose.

    people have freaked out and done stupid shit over less, I guess is what I’m getting at
     
  17. Nettdata

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    It's been like that since January... the running meme is that GME is their savings account.

    The constant message in the various GME subreddits is "no dates".

    Sure, you're getting people more and more pissed off over how rigged the system is as they learn more and more about it, and some are getting very vocal and annoyed at people like Gary Gensler for seemingly not doing anything about it, but there are way more people who are either not saying anything, or are promoting patience, and faith in Ryan Cohen and/or GG and the SEC to sort this stuff out.
     
  18. toytoy88

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    Gotta love the OTC. PHIL just announced the acquisition of a company with potential $600M annual revenues...a 100 year old company. And PHIL's price immediately tanked 20% because the CEO said the buyback of retirement shares will be ongoing until 12/31. Something that was announced months ago.

    Oh yeah, and it's only 6 trading days from the 10K drop.

    I'm starting to understand how people lose their asses in the OTC. No patience and trading on emotion.
     
  19. Fiveslide

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    Anyone getting on the SHIB rocket? The DOGE killer?

    I, personally, do not think it is going to turn $500 into millions, like a ton of the people buying it. But I got in early and if it burns two zeros from now, making it worth a whopping $0.000758, I will have over $32,000 for a little under $300. I do think that is possible in the coming years. It does have a ton of support and is kinda breaking away from the other cryptos that seem to always have matching charts, especially today. Of course, there are people out there with their supposed diamond hands saying they aren't selling till $1.00.
     
  20. effinshenanigans

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    I threw sixty what-the-hell bucks at it just to see what happens. Even if it gets to $0.001 at some point, that's ~$6k for me. If it roars to something much higher, then things get interesting, but I highly doubt it'll do that soon, if ever. $1 isn't happening, but if it ever starts rubbing two dimes together, then I'm a millionaire.

    Knowing my luck, though, it'll hit $0.20 in 15 years, I'll forget I have it, it'll dump at the peak and never return to a penny ever again.