I had always assumed that his gun was in front and didn't know it was a side/back side location until the hunkie prosecutor with Kevin Costner's voice kept saying it was and it would be impossible IMPOSSIBLE for Zimmerman to have reached it in the position he claimed he was in. Watch those videos in close quarters training and tell me it'd be impossible for two guys struggling for one to wiggle his gun out in a fluid situation. As for the DNA unlike movies and TV evidence isn't always conveniently on every surface the detectives want*. Since it wasn't on his gun it does give less credit to Zimmerman's assertion that Martin had his hand on it. But the head beating he got up until that point was enough cause for him to skin the smoke wagon. *I got my apartment broken into in college and a bunch of my shit stolen, it was obvious the robbers had moved my tv stand to the side to get my Playstation. The detective that came just shrugged and said he could dust it but the surface had an eggshell texture and prints weren't going to be able to be lifted from it. I still had him dust but anything that showed up wasn't going to be able to be usable. Most of the prints on other surfaces around the area could have easily been mine or my roommates and dude wasn't going to test a bunch of random prints for a playstation, computer, and a case of DVDs.
Why in gods green earth would you be in mount and allow a human to reach behind their back though is my question. They have arm pits you have knees no back reachy for them.
Dude, you need to stop thinking as it Trayvon Martin was a trained fighter that was planning for all eventualities. He was wailing on Zimmerman and Zimmerman managed to reach his gun.
See I don't think of that as planning for all eventualities it the natural position to end up up in. Also you said it according to the story Martin was as you say "wailing away" on Zimmerman yet the coroner found none of Zimmerman's DNA on Martin, nor signs of struggle on the corpse? No blood, no hair, skin under finger nails, nothing? It just seems rather improbable.
So it is more probable that Zimmerman got his wounds from a tree branch and a water sprinkler and then held Martin there for how ever many seconds the neighbors 911 call had someone screaming for help before executing him? Because that was the prosecutions theory.
Its rather shocking how little they can actually pull prints from. My friends had their apartment broken into and stuff was clearly askew. In an entire apartment, with clear entry points and damaged door frames, drawers opened, etc... All that may have yielded a print was a box from an internet router that had been moved to gain access to the video games. While it was sitting there as he talked to us, my friend's gf walked into the room, moved it to get something, and tarnished the surface so it was worthless. CSI my ass.
Is it too soon for Trayvon jokes?... No? Cool. I'll re-post some. Q: Was was Zimmerman's real crime? A: Spoiler Littering Q: What did Trayvon get for his birthday? A: Spoiler Your bike Q: How to we know Trayvon was starting to get a cold that night? A: Spoiler Because a few days later he was deep coffin. Q: Did you know Trayvon was an aspiring rapper? A: Spoiler Yeah, his greatest hit was the pavement. Q: Have you heard George lost his position as neighborhood watch? A: Spoiler He did a terrible job making sure Trayvon got home safely. Q: Did you hear Skittles was pulling their product from the market? A: Spoiler Turns out it might cause lead poisoning
Here's a great article about the subject by Jim Goad. It points out what E. Tuffmen said, but also how cases of black-on-white violence haven't been sensationalized like this case was.
Did someone in this thread already make the following joke? I haven't been in this thread because its a shitstorm, we're all lawyers and CSI apparently. This guy posted it on his Facebook. "Y'all really didn't think white folks forgot about OJ did you?" I think its funny.
Can't embed the videos for some reason but this guy has a pretty good approach on the subject, the audio / video is delayed on the first video but his points are unfortunately not more wide spread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mooiI9wIagY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a9_qsXfnOw
This post is a bit disjointed, but this case and this thread were very much on my mind last night. We had thunderstorms here, and my housemate was driving home and came across a frightened dog in the middle of the road. He brought it home and rang the pound but they couldn't trace the owner for us, so we leashed the dog and went back to where he was was found and looked for his house. We knocked on a few doors, and eventually we came across a neighbour who thought he knew where the dog lived, so we headed to that house and knocked on the door but didn't get a response. I went round the side to see if there was a kennel, or bowl, or some sign that they were missing a dog. Scene: it's 11pm at night. There's a thunderstorm going on, the power's out in places so it's pitch black, and you get woken up by the sound of your side gate opening. Two 6'3+ guys wearing hoodies and dark pants come out... What happens next is so dependent on the expectations of the people involved. In this case, the homeowner came out and had a chat, thanked us for returning his dog, and we all went our separate ways. If he'd been more fearful, or more aggressive, or more armed, the scenario can go sideways quickly. The nice thing about living in Australia is that there was exactly 0% chance of anyone getting shot. (Seriously. "In Western Australia, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population in 2007/08 is: 0.00." Australian Historical Population Statistics – Data Cubes; Table 2. Canberra: Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). 23 May). Ultimately, I think this comes down to the fact that George Zimmerman defined Trayvon Martin as indisputably, irredeemably, other. He didn't belong. He wasn't part of the community with which Zimmerman identified. Race was probably a factor. Or, maybe it's a wealth disparity problem masquerading as a racial problem. Or maybe one of the unfortunate side effects of the cult of individualism which is responsible for so much of the extraordinarily good AND the extraordinarily bad in US society is a hero complex which lends itself to this sort of vigilante narrative. If you don't believe there's a gun issue in US society, or if you believe there is but the political climate is such that it can't be tackled, then it makes sense to focus on issues that can be addressed - in this case, the perception of who belongs in your community, and who has the authority to make that judgement.
For those of you opposed to him in general, please try to suspend your bias and listen to what he says on the topic in this memo. I found it to be spot on. It doesn't just relate to Zimmerman. It specifically addresses the media and, I believe, cuts to the root of a lot of our problems in general.
I know this was just referencing a joke and maybe it shouldn't bother me as much as it does but the man was not white. Just a cheap media trick to paint this as white on black violence. The whole situation was fucked up but no need to add to it just to make a story or push an agenda.
I don't think the "Joke" was referencing Zimmerman, but the judicial system. Many are viewing the verdict through their own glasses.
Tuff I honestly agree with a lot of what he said there. I've never once said the race race issue in this country is one sided. However, that being said it is plain ludicrous to pretend that there is not a racial power structure in this country that whites sit on top of. As I said earlier in the thread I think based on all I've hear from I think Zimmerman should have been aquitted because the case brought against him wasn't a strong one. The questions I've been raising in the thread are really just what I think are pretty glaring holes in the logic of the story that is being peddled. Honestly I don't believe the events transpired the way Zimmerman presented them, but the story floated and in the American justice system that is what matters. People who commit crimes get off. It happens. Hopefully this dude gets out of his cowboy mindset and let's police do their jobs from now on.
Why is that blacks always tend to be ones that pull the racism card? That's not biting criticism, it's an honest inquiry. I understand they dealt with a special brand of oppression in this country at one point, but it's not like they were the only ones oppressed throughout history. I mean hell, whites were racist to other whites until around the 1940s. Not to mention the Asians, Hispanics, Jews, etc. who have been oppressed. I've been trying to wrap my head around why it's such a prevalent topic in that community in particular. I wonder if its some kind of glue that binds the community together in some homogenous way that's starting to fracture and dissipate into the rest of society, which is why it's been doubled down on the last couple years. The keep the idea of the Struggle alive. And last I checked, there was a black guy at the top of the power structure. But I guess we could claim he's white since he has a white parent, which is the argument people make about Zimmerman.
I'll agree and attempt to explain from my perspective because I've spent some time to wondering at the same thing. The simple response? It's easy. It is easy to blame another person for your particular difficulty, to leave unexamined the nuanced reasons for another person's reaction or feelings. This isn't to take anything away from my previously negative experiences of women crossing the street or clenching their purses when I walk by or shop keepers being extra vigilant when I walk into their stores. But I don't think in these cases it is always the color of the skin. Lady crosses the street because I'm a 220 pound male and its dark out. She clenches her purse for the same reason. Shop keeper watches because I'm dressed in street clothes and didn't smile when I walked in the door. The other factor to consider is that iron sharpens iron or in this case stupid reinforces stupid. If your social group tells you something over and over again, you're going to believe it. "Fuckin cops, always thinkin a black man is up to no good". Hearing that growing up has made me wary of cops to this day. I've crushed a lot of it by just being cool to cops and realizing they have a hard job. But it was an active choice to do so and a swim upstream at that. Hearing the race card being played and seeing things out of context because of your own programming I think makes using the race card a default response. It's easy and requires no thought
No white guilt cuz ain't non a dem mufuckas ever been owned by 'muricans. Oh and ain't non a dem mufuckas ever been seen as a threat to fuck your women