This. I said "thug" in the context of all the texts messages, drugs, photos of him with guns he can't legally own, suspensions from school, etc. Black, white, hispanic, etc. those kind of actions are those of someone you would typically identify as a "thug." Now, GZ didn't know this background of TM at the time, but I believe it does serve as evidence that he correctly profiled TM as potentially dangerous when he followed him. And is it proper at this point to address the massive issue of the President taking a stand on this case, early on before all the facts were out, in saying "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"? Imo that's what propelled it into court. I know there are a lot of people on this board who do not agree with my opinions. But I post them to further a discussion, to add another perspective and view; not to preach to a choir. So I welcome that disagreement with me.
Agreed. Profiling isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, and everybody profiles every single person they meet in some way, you're only lying to yourself if you disagree with that. There is a problem with racial profiling in the grand scheme of things, but people bringing it up in regards to the situation at hand just seem kind of butthurt that Zimmerman pegged Trayvon as a "thug" and was right. Not saying that Trayvon was up to no good on the night he was killed, but he wasn't some sweet innocent child.
To take the discussion about rioting a step further than ToyToy. There is a new dynamic today that wasn't present in '92. Social Media. There are flash mobs that break out in metro areas for no reason at all that cause damage to life and property on a semi-regular basis. Leading up to the verdict last night there was a lot of talk on social media about rioting. I don't consider it racist to be concerned about something like that happening if you know it's happened before, you know flash mobs happen (sometimes with as little as 10 minutes notice) and you have seen the warning signs on social media. You would be foolish not to consider it a real possibility.
I think Cult hit one of the biggest problems with this case. "Based on what is known." There's far too much information that is simply not known and the jury had to decide based on facts presented, not speculation, examples, parallels, or similar situations. I do not envy any of those women, because putting yourself in that kind of a vacuum must suck. One thing I think people are overlooking is that Martin was in a position of physical dominance, beating Zimmerman's head. The fear of Martin going after Zimmerman's gun, since he was in such a position, in my extremely humble opinion, does constitute self-defence. If we are standing up and I get punched, I have no reasonable fear that my own gun will be used against me. If the combatant is on top of me, then that fear is very real. Bottom line, a teenager is dead and the guy who pulled the trigger is free. That might be legal, but it's not right and I think Zimmerman will never get a good night's sleep for the rest of his life. This will hopefully inspire some changes to the "cowboy cop" culture, the "right to shoot" laws, and slow down the militarization of the police. It might be hokey, but this shit is about to be required reading: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1594391297" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.com/dp/1594391297</a>
No shit. "Is that a video camera? You want me to suck what? Well....ok, it's just between us right?" "Marry you? Ok, I guess." How come my bad decisions don't result in $600 million in my bank account? #Nojustice
One thing about this whole thing that has shat me is the use of old photos of the kid, is it because every photo taken in the preceding 12 months would have looked as unsympathetic as fuck? And Z, what a cockhead. Wanted to be a hero, was proved to be a pussy, but had a gun. If it played out as I suspect it did, a fair result would have been 3-5 years in the clink for Z. I have little doubt the kid attacked, but I also have little doubt Z put himself in harm’s way, which he wouldn’t of done without the firearm to back himself up, meaning he got himself into situation that he couldn’t extract himself from without the use of lethal force. There should in a balance system be some culpability here, the dude had an out, he could have walked away. Sort of like leaving the door open in a dodgy neighbourhood with a big screen tv box in the front yard while waiting in the shadows with a shotgun cocked. Sure you can argue home defence, but it’s bullshit. On the flipside a good way to not get shot in the face is don’t attack people on the street and don’t illegally enter other people’s property, neither of which is particularly hard to fucking manage. Yeah I’m torn.
The problem with the argument, "Zimmerman rightfully profiled Trayvon as a thug, look at his history!" made by the defense is that Zimmerman didnt know any of that information ahead of time. Its completely coincidental and apropos to Zimmerman's thought process when he was following the kid. Cultural discussions aside, he was following him purely on appearances. But I guess the counterargument is that he didnt shoot him based on that either, he was attacked first. Even after following it closely for the last few days, I still dont know. I do believe the verdict is correct based on reasonable doubt, but I dont know the right answer to the situation.
To the people saying that Zimmerman, through shear dumb ass luck, correctly profiled Martin as a potentially dangerous thug; Wouldn't that be greater incentive to let police handle the situation? Unless of course Zimmerman wanted to play out some hero fantasy.
Yes, I would say leaving your car when there is a potential dangerous person in your area is stupid and the biggest mistake he made. That alone isn't illegal though. If the prosecution's theory was correct and that Zimmerman knew the laws and was applying them to create the perfect murder then staying in his car would have been an even better option than forcing some sort of Stand Your Ground situation in a back alley. As use of force in your car as in your home is a lot easier to claim successfully your right to self defense since they are private spaces not public. I think the hardest part, again, is admitting that the kid violently overreacted. It should be part of the discourse of this case that maybe we should be teaching our youths not to let their fist to do the talking. Some will say Im racist or victim blaming but the jury agreed the beating Zimmerman took was enough to justify the deadly force he used. Had Trayvon not resorted to violence, either he would have still been killed and Zimmerman would have been an outright murderer with a much easier case to convict (1st degree could have been more likely), or the situation would have deescalated and he would have walked home.
I'm not sure we can actually agree on any of this, except as a hypothetical/theoretical idea. We don't know (1) whether Martin reacted at all or on the defensive, or (2) whether the jury actually believed this to factually be the case or acquitted based on ambiguity or lack of evidence. It's at this point unknown who "resorted to violence" and why. We know how the fight ended, not how it started.
Rachel Jeantel (Trayvon Martin's friend he was on the phone with while he was being followed/prosecution/s star witness) is live on Piers Morgan right now. I'll post some videos after the interview if I can find them. I'm sure they'll go viral. All I can say with confidence right now though is, if a white person were to go on live tv and say about black people what she is saying about black people, the person would be dead before they got off the stage.
Except for all the evidence suggesting otherwise. To say that he was a fine, upstanding, loving, productive young man seems a stretch.
The general population amazes me. I was in a store today and overheard the following conversation: Idiot 1: "Did you hear about that little black kid in Florida?" Idiot 2: "No, what happened?" Idiot 1: "He was walking home mindin' his own bidness and this white guy walked up on him and shot him dead. And a he was declared innocent. He walked away free and clear. The little 13 year old is dead and nothing happens to the guy that shot him." Idiot 2: "That happened to my cousin, he was walking along, not doing nothing and some white guy shot him for no reason." Sweet Jesus. These people probably vote.
Article about a juror's comments from a CNN interview: <a class="postlink" href="http://news.yahoo.com/-juror-says-zimmerman-went--above-and-beyond--but-that-race-was-not-an-issue--010659567.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.yahoo.com/-juror-says-zimme ... 59567.html</a> I think her comments here are relevant and show that the jury really made the right decision. She certainly seems level headed and fair minded.