Friday Sober Thread: Tragedy in Connecticut

Just because we are not seeing a further breakdown of marriages doesn't mean that the family dynamic in not increasingly digressing.

(More children each year a born unto single parents. 40% in 2010, up from 6% in the 60's.

Spoiler

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/09/marriage-americas-greatest-weapon-against-child-poverty

)

That and there are fewer marriages taking place altogether.

 

I think about this discussion on societal decay in a different way. With the gini ratio, disparity in educational access based on zip code, etc that we face now, do we see risk of further biforcation of society? Think about it, healthcare is going to split into govt run vs. concierge, families increasingly split between single provider or two parents, I wonder if the "working poor" will drop out of workforce and just find a way to scrape by. The higher tax rates get and the more the safety net is propped up to respond to shitty growth (current "austerity" plan) the lower the incentive to work. This sounds like right ring ranting so I will caveat that I'm just thinking of incentives I see and not trying to comment on policy. And yes I am writing this from a bar.

 

I don't see anything particularly interesting in the correlation. It's an independence/dependence thing. On one side you have people who believe you should earn what you have and that would rather defend themselves than depend on the police. On the other side you have people who think you should be entitled to a certain standard of living no matter how hard you try to fuck your life up and prefer to trust the police to protect them. I've found it also aligns pretty well with people who change their own oil and people who think they're better than the guy they pay to do it.

Having grown up in a rural area, I have very little faith in the police. The only experience I have came from a night where someone woke my mother up in the middle of the night trying to get in a window (my father worked nights). The only two sheriffs on duty were both on the other side of the county, so it took them half an hour to show up. The guy ran off when the lights turned on, and I'm pretty sure it was the same kid that got caught breaking into a barn a month later (because the owner caught him and beat the ever-loving shit out of him). If it hadn't been some stupid kid, maybe it could have turned out worse.

My brother works at a tire store in a major urban area, which by the nature of the business has to keep more cash on hand than a lot of stores in the area. A few weeks ago a guy pulled a knife on the guy behind the counter. When my brother came out from the back with his Beretta, the guy ran off. The cops told them it wasn't worth filing a report because nothing was taken and they probably wouldn't find him anyway.

Maybe I would feel different if I grew up in an affluent, white, suburban area where the crime rate is basically vandalism and noise complaints, but we aren't all so lucky.

From what I can see, once you take away the (not insignificant) religious component, the main reason non-rich people vote Republican against their economic self-interest is the because they just want the government to leave them alone.

 

Actually I said I'd feel differently if I lived in a place where the scary poor brown people are out of sight, out of mind and any policy involving them is purely theoretical. That you equated that with a higher standard of living kind of makes my point.

Could stronger social programs help? Probably. Would they? I doubt it. There is a major difference in culture between the US and Europe. We generally can't have nice things. Look at the difference between labor unions in Europe and the United States.

It's also worth noting that liberal reforms are more about keeping the poor docile than helping them achieve a higher standard of living. The only real goal is to keep them just comfortable enough to prevent Marx's revolution.

 

This is partly an issue about gun culture and partly about the culture of the entire country as a whole. Gun culture is huge in music and media consumed in general where it's gloried by rappers and celebrities. When did you hear a 2Pac song which didn't mention him killing someone? Or some stupid movie glorifying it along with dealing dope because it's quick money?

The culture I blame as a whole because of a failing family unit. Growing up as a kid and even now I see less and less fathers in a child's life which absolutely breaks my heart. Mom's have the most difficult job no doubt, but girls and boys need positive male role models in their life. When you see dads just running at the hint of a kid, what does this say to the growing child? What does this say to the people around the child? I had an absentee father growing up myself but luckily I didn't grow up to be a too much of a fuck up and I'm a fairly productive member of society. Lastly if you look at the statistics in the minority communities they are disproportionately high. By a factor of seven times high. Link from the DOJ.



The culture I blame as a whole because of current status of mental health and the way the government functions. People KNEW way before these murderers and psychopaths were dangerous yet did absolutely nothing. I found out today something about the Chris Kyle murder which I was asked not to reveal until the investigation is complete(don't bother PMing me about it because I'm going to delete your message without reading it) and it absolutely enraged me because an American hero, a loving husband, and a devoted father is no longer with us because people are doing absolutely nothing before these events happen. People knew that psychopath in Connecticut was crazy people he shot those kids. They chose not to do anything about it and look what happened.

There was an article I read the other day (I lost the link sorry) which showed a few conviction rates for murders in Louisiana and the vast majority of them went free because people chose not to speak up. When people ARE locked up, they are released fairly quickly. If you ask me, throw the fucking book at these scumbags instead of letting them back out. Pink Cup, I know you have some input on this and I would love to hear your opinion on this.

 

Has it struck anyone else that this whole cali thing...bunch of cops chasing an armed ex-police/military guy through the woods...is basically the plot to First Blood (Rambo)?

 

He writes so strongly how he endorses the AWB, yet uses an AR to dust cops.

It almost sounds like he thinks that by using an AR to commit all of these murders, he will further his cause.

 

This is correct. The typical fireteam has the following:

1. Fireteam leader, armed with an M16 with attached grenade launcher. He serves as the leader and what amounts to being very light artillery.
2. Rifleman, armed with an M16. He serves as the point man and the scout.
3. Assistant automatic rifleman, armed with an M16. He serves as extra firepower and also carries some of the automatic rifleman's ammo.
4. Automatic rifleman, armed with an M249. He serves as the guy who suppresses the enemy by hosing the area down.

1-3 don't really have a need for automatic fire. If they're in a position where they have to shoot someone, accuracy is what counts. And unless you're playing CoD, three-round burst is HARD to stay accurate with. I consistently shoot Expert on the range, and burst-fire is basically useless for anything that isn't straight-up close-quarters combat. You aren't going to hit shit at anything beyond 25-30 yards.

Of course, the automatic rifleman will just light the entire area up with rounds if he has to. But he's got a SAW, not an M16.

On-topic: I'm interested in how long it's going to take to hunt this guy down. I think that if he's smart about it and has a few sympathetic friends, he could be shooting cops for a long time.

 

Full auto fire is effective for machine guns and submachine guns. Machine guns fire rifle calibers from belts of 100 or more rounds but are heavy enough to absorb most of the recoil and are mainly used as suppressive weapons--the idea isn't necessarily to kill the other guy (if you do, great) but to force him to keep his head down so he can't shoot back and so your friends can either maneuver around to get a better shot at him or break contact, as the situation dictates. Submachine guns (MP5, Uzi, etc.) fire pistol rounds (much less recoil) and are much heavier than your typical pistol (though not as heavy as a rifle), so they can shoot reasonably accurately on full auto. Even with machine and submachine guns you have to control your fire on full auto, normally 3-10 round bursts. Hip-firing a full 100-round belt through a SAW is a lot of fun (your tax dollars at work, folks*) but not accurate enough even for effective suppressive fire. With a rifle like the AR-15, full auto is basically useless--impossible to fire with any sort of accuracy, even for suppressive fire.



* - The time we took a broken microwave out to the range and put about 100 .50 cal rounds, which are worth about $5 each, through it was also your tax dollars at work.

 

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJr8-A7G4U&feature=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJr8-A7 ... e=youtu.be</a>

couldn't get it to embed

mashup of news cast and trailer to rambo...

 

Only the ones custom-made for Ahnold. The ones that never run out of ammo.

 

I was listening to the radio when a reporter talking about this said, and I quote, "We really don't know how dangerous he is, or how close he has to be to be a threat to someone. He might have one of those gun.. attachment things that let you see farther."

Every day I'm surprised by my constant naivety regarding the ignorance of people.

Either that, or the reporter knew what a scope is but didn't want to say scope because she thought the listeners wouldn't know what one was. I don't know which scenario is worse.

 

Oddest thing about that particular passage of his was that as a former cop and (up until the day before) naval officer, he'd have been the kind who would have had access to 10+ round magazines for both pistols and rifles, as well as access to actual assault rifles (under every interpretation of those laws besides this most recent New York one).

 

This whole idea of having armed volunteers protecting schools is being implemented really well so far.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if a TON of these sharpshooting-type articles hit the media.

I also wouldn't be shocked if not a single incident where such a "posse" protected kids from a threat was reported.