As a book reader, this episode was terrible. As a show watcher, shit was very undercooked. SO much time wasted north of the Wall and in Mereen - was it 40 minutes before we finally moved on to other places? No wonder they had to rush thru everything else. SUDDENLY here's Jamie to set Tyrion free. SUDDENLY here's Tyrion coming out of a secret passage in the floor. No time left to even try to explain the Shae reveal (in the books she'd been a gold digger all along so it made sense that she'd upgrade, but here? she's been a loving housewife since season 1). Anyway, here's something I found that may indicate the direction this show is going in: So I'm guessing none of that thing, and none of the other thing. And my fears are confirmed.
The finale was okay, the Pirates Of The Carribean skeletons were too parkour for the show, though. This WAS my favourite season yet, though.
Yeah, with all the focus on the wall those last two episodes they just made Tyrion's scene feel so abrupt. I've had issues with Shae since the beginning. They completely changed her character,which is ok, but you can't totally rewrite her personality and then force her into the same character arcs. What got cut out of Tyrion's revenge scene also made it lack the punch it had in the books. They made it work with Arya and the hound at least. They are speeding up Bran's story line, which absolutely had to be done. Overall a pretty good season and I can live with the changes in the show since the next books are a drop in quality, but god damn, if you're going to move pieces around keep in mind the impact it has.
Yeah I was a little confused too how Shae had seem so totally devoted to Tyrion in the past few seasons to turn such a hard and abrupt 180. I mean Tyrion being forced to marry Sansa and then eventually being shipped off just didn't seem egregious enough for her to turn on him that bad.
I was disappointed, but it was a foregone conclusion I would be. I have stated here many times I did not like the departures from the books. As I put it to my friends who say 'yeah, but they got the high points.' Yeah, but look at it this way. If I take a trip to LA from Philly, and I fly, is that a very different experience than if I drive via the Southern route? To me, stories are very much about the journey, not just the destination. The killing of Tywin is a great example. By cutting the story about Tyrion's first wedding, and his father's reaction to it, the rage might seem a little misplaced over the use of the word 'whore' as it does here. The other thing I hated about the changes is having characters meet that haven't in the books - a la Brienne and the Hound. By creating that scene, the tv show asks us to believe the characters are pretty dumb. Bri doesn't mention Sansa to Arya? Doesn't give them information about it? It seems to me in such a dangerous world, they would have exchanged more information before bashing each other, since ultimately that is the quest they were both on: information regarding what next to do with Arya/Sansa. This storyline read more like 'Rambo' and less like 'Game of Thrones.' As did the whole skeleton debacle. And where the fuck is Coldhands? And Lady Stoneheart? Again, the show did hit the 'high points' of the book, but the journey is less than satisfying. I really hope they heed the criticism leveled by many that they are departing from the books too much (like Cersei's conversation with her father), and get back to what made the series great: the actual story.
Book people: stop talking about things we haven't seen. I absolutely, positively WILL NOT read the books until this series is over. Mentioning things we haven't seen ruins shit, it was bad enough when somebody gave away Ned Stark's death before the first episode even aired.
For once I completely agree with you. There's no need at all to come to this specific topic and put any form of book spoilers, even if they're in the spoiler tags. Basically, stay in your own topic, nerds.
Fuck that... talk about the books if you like, and compare how they relate to the TV show all you like. To me, that's part of the discussion, and just because someone has had their head buried in the sand and not read them doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer. Just don't be a dick and bring up any future shit that may ruin things for others.
This was disapointing for a season ender, it just seemed like another episode to me. But then again, i have found this whole season to be the least interesting, sure lots of cool stuff has happened, but i find myself more then not bored. It seems like they put to much filler in. And the whole Brienne/Hound thing just seemed way out of left field.
That's what I meant. Somebody was mentioning characters I haven't heard from or seen yet. If its happened, by all means comment away. Nobody ruined any surprises this season or the last three for that matter.
I think you're all missing the point. That black chicks titties were awesome. Makes it all worth it. (brushes tear from corner of eye)
I get what book readers are complaining about. As a book reader the changes are something to take into account. But any adaptation from books will have some changes. Yes some of these could lead to changes that "might" diminish the story. Let's say they will diminish the story to whatever degree we feel is right. It's still a really good series. The best I've seen from HBO and I feel like that is saying something. Do I wish that the show was exactly what I saw in my minds eye while reading the books. Oh hell yes I do. That said, they are doing a great job in my opinion. The amount of material they have to go through to create the series is mind boggling. The character list is so expansive there is no chance they could incorporate them all in a 10 episode season. Let's try to give them the credit they are due.
Jamie raping cersei is the only moment where I've really gone 'oh fuck you' about changes from the book. They took such a complex and layered moment of fucked up and completely missed the central truth of the characters to touch on a hot button issue that doesn't add to te story anywhere near as much as it detracts. Other stuff gave me neck beard moments, but that scene was the one that bothers me even when I'm not wearing a fedora and brushing Cheetos out of my beard.
I hear you, I really do. If the past season (which is essentially the second half of Storm of Swords) had been the 1st season, I probably wouldn't be nearly as critical, and moving forward, I would feel more prepared for the changes being made. What I personally find so frustrating is that for the first two books, they were so faithful to the books. Sure, stuff will get cut, sure the ages were changed (which does affect things), and some stuff will be different for story flow - I get that. I guess it comes down to what you expect. I was very leery of watching the first season, because I love the books so much, so I didn't want to invest in something if it wasn't going to live up to what is in my mind, one of the best stories I've ever read. But they far surpassed what I hoped for, the first two seasons were awesome. Any changes were fairly minor and clearly done for visual/time compression/flow reasons. Fair enough. But this last season? It really felt like the writers wanted to do a take on Sword in their own style, and there were definitely times where it felt forced, thrown together, or wholly contrived - i.e. several of Jaime/Cersei's scenes, Jon/Ygritte, Hound/Brienne, Littlefinger/Lady Aryn/Sansa. I'm not saying it's not a good series, it's one of the best things on tv, but as I've seen this season, the tv writers have cheaped out on certain scenes to make them cliche for no other reason I can see than they wanted to. One of the great strengths of Martin's books is I can't think of a time where he's ever cheaped out and given the cliche scene. The way Ygritte/Jon was handled in the books was much better due to the ambiguity - the tv scene? Yeah, fucking cheap so she can get that 'Extra's' - 'Are You 'Avin a Laugh' line in. And part of what makes it so infuriating is you know that these guys can do it much more faithfully because they've done so previously.
Scootah, First off, welcome back. You're right on there. I can't figure out why they did that. It ruins Jamie's character arc, coming from a shit to someone I started to really like in the books. There seems to be no reason for it. VI, Comparing the first two seasons to this in terms of truthfulness to the books is as you describe. In a way it's tragic but I have to feel like there is a reason for it. I don't know that and I've had massively high expectations for this series. You're right, the books are the best series I've ever read. I couldn't put them down, even the slower later books. All of the interactions you've mentioned have changed a great deal from the books and not for the better. I guess what I'm saying is we don't know why they made the changes they did and there has to be a reason. If it's simply their own interpretation, I do have an issue with it. What ever the reason, we all know they could have added two seasons to the material they've covered, I hold out hope they will hold it together. If not I hope Martin lives long enough to give us readers the story we've loved going forward. Ultimately the series is fantastic. Non-readers are loving it, and we are too for the most part. I'm trying not to be as critical as some while holding out hope they don't butcher it.
Below is a spoiler of a major twist from the books that is rumored to have been cut from the show. Non-book readers, open at your own peril. Spoiler Holy shit, word is that Lady Stoneheart won't be appearing in the show and Catelyn is just dead. Does anyone know if this is confirmed? It seems like a colossal mistake as one can only assume Lady Stoneheart plays an important role in the future of the books. Plus her reveal is just such an awesome moment! Where I read it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...rley_n_5530215.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
I have never read the books, but from friends that have Spoiler All she does is just show up and just fucking destroy shit, while that would be cool to watch, it really doesn't add the much in the storey sense.
Lena Headey (sp?) has been posting coded spoilers on her twitter account. Spoiler She recently posted a picture of a heart made out of stones.
Minor character spoiler for the next season. Spoiler Looks like book readers will have to wait another season to see what happens with Bran and Hodor.