I like your big font, but there's also not one incontrovertible event at the end that points to him being in a dream world. The kids wearing the same clothes could mean that he's in a dream, but it could also just be that Nolan wanted the ending scene to be the same as the scene that kept popping up, because all Leonardo's character wanted was to see his kids faces at that moment. You can blubber and blather and bold things and underline them all you want, but there's nothing that points 100% to either dream or reality.
HAHAHAHA! So now what Cobb wants OVERRIDES REALITY? You're more deluded than the characters in the movie, wanting to believe something just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy and happy, despite all contradictory evidence. Then again, that's likely the dichotomy Nolan was going for. Think about it. Cobb really wants to see his kids faces at that moment so, you know, when he comes home they'll be playing in the exact same spot, wearing the exact same clothes and hey, guess what! They won't have aged a day! You don't get it. Just stop typing. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Seems pretty clear to me that we're not supposed to know for certain either way. That's why the top spun for so long, with just that little wobble before the cut to black. It's meant to be ambiguous.
Why is it clear to you that the audience isn't supposed to know either way? The ending isn't meant to be ambiguous. He's in a dream. If you don't understand that, you're an idiot.
Jesus dude, you are getting really worked up about a movie you had no part in. And nowhere did I say "What Cobb wants overrides reality." I said that Nolan made the scenes the same because that visual imagery was the whole reason he did each and every thing in the movie, and to have us see the children's faces any other way would have been less dramatic. Cobb wanted to see the children turn towards him, WE wanted to see the children turn towards him. I'm still really confused about how you are 100% certain you know exactly everything about the movie, when everybody else who has seen it clearly states that it is an ambiguous ending, which while basically meant to provoke this discussion means that there's no way to tell for sure. Sorry, internet cowboy.
Because for anyone with a brain, it IS obvious that Cobb is in a dream at the end. And yes, going with what everyone else says is always the recipe for ascertaining the truth in things, not using logic and thinking for yourself. Look. You and most of the other people in this thread aren't smart enough to figure out the ending for yourself. Just wait a few weeks until more people have seen it. Someone with some credentials you're impressed by will say the exact things I've just said, and then you'll listen.
AlexWolfe, you are doing exactly what Christopher Nolan wanted people to do with the ending, albeit quite a bit more immaturely than most. It's not like this is an uncommon tool in film making, leaving it open for the audience to interpret and ultimately argue about. I'm pretty sure when he is interviewed about it, he will refuse to pick one side or the other, allowing people to continue to debate, and ultimately drawing more attention to the movie.
Alex, you really think that you are some otherworldly intellect with intelligence that none of us can match? Fine, but keep it to yourself. It is not obvious that he was dreaming or in reality. There is not one incontrovertible piece of evidence for or against either hypothesis, and that is the whole point of the ending. If Christopher Nolan wanted us to know if he was dreaming or not he wouldn't have shown the totem wobbling (slightly) and then cutting to black. He wants us to MAKE OUR OWN ASSESSMENT. He is not holding our hand to figure out the meaning of the ending. You think Cobb was dreaming... great, you have a pessimistic outlook on what happens. Others think he was living out reality. Awesome, they have a romantic outlook on the story. The point is arguing over this with these ad hominem attacks gets this thread no where but closed when it can be a very intelligent debate on a great piece of art. Let's keep it at the latter.
What's funny is that you're calling everyone a moron for not acknowleding your infallible argument when you didn't even figure out the movie for yourself. Alex, you thought he woke up until someone elaborated on the scene at the end. What happens when you realize there's something else you missed, but can't resolve? Is your brain going to explode. Personally, I lean towards he was dreaming, but it's kind of funny to think that Cobb's probably going to find out 5 minutes after the movie ends. As soon as he walks back in and sees the top still spinning he'll know he's awake.
Of course he will. It's in his best interest. Doesn't mean he's telling the truth one way or another. I don't understand why everyone thinks I'm personally invested in this. I get into arguments, but I don't stake my personal well-being to them, unlike some. No, I didn't understand the movie initially. Shit, you know what I thought the first time I saw it? I thought that the old man at the end was an old Cobb, and I thought Leonardo DiCaprio was talking to HIMSELF at the end of the movie. I thought that because that old man recognized the top, it meant that he was the Leo that grew old and couldn't move on with his life. I thought that when Leo told the old man to kill himself, he was eradicating his demons and ultimately becoming his own man. I call others morons for refusing to acknowledge the evidence in front of them. Someone isn't stupid for their opinion; someone is stupid for refusing to change their opinion in the face of evidence. Being smart isn't about figuring everything out for yourself. It's about acknowledging your own strengths and weaknesses and going from there. Maybe I took it too far, but I like debating when people actually have evidence to debate with. Nothing pisses me off more than idiots that base their opinions on nothing, especially when they refuse to acknowledge other arguments that have been brought up.
I think you're all fucking stupid and wrong. The entire film was clearly a dreamworld created by Arnie Grape to help cope with the fact that his morbidly obese mother died on his birthday and that he'll never be as handsome as his older brother.
Fucking awesome interview about Inception by Dileep Rao the guy who plays the chemist. It is a must read. Inception’s Dileep Rao Answers All Your Questions About Inception I'm going to go ahead and quote one of the most relevant parts.
He didn't do that though. Everything that happened in the movie up to the first part was real. It's what happened when Leo purportedly came back to reality that was a dream. Wait, what? Bolding and underlining that was an attempt to get you to focus on the argument instead of calling me paranoid and attacking my character, but we all saw how that worked out, didn't we? Two other things no one mentioned -- - Listen to the voices of Leo's children when he calls them early in the movie. Quite older than their voices in the end of the movie. - Ariadne, in Greek myth, led Theseus out of the labyrinth. But Theseus abandons Ariadne. The mythological symbolism doesn't quite match up, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Dude, you're WAY too into this argument. People have different opinions. Here, I'll play devil's advocate (I do think he was still in a dream). Arguments for him being in the real world: Point 1: He wasn't wearing his ring. He was wearing it in every other dream state but this one. Point 2: He actually gets to see his kids' faces. That was the entire thing: in every dream and memory he had, he never saw his kids faces, because his subconscious just wouldn't let him. He'd walk in, and they'd run away before he could do anything. Point 3: If he is still dreaming, he'll turn around and see the top still spinning about 3 seconds later. Point 4: Everyone he knew from the job was there, and while people say no one talked him, Saito did make the call. Plus, they couldn't really discuss the job right in front of the guy they'd just planted the idea in. Every time Cobb sees his coworkers, they're right in front of Fischer, so they can't talk, as they still have to play the part of strangers to Fischer, so it makes sense that they wouldn't talk to him. Point 5: From the time he takes the sedative from Yusuf until the end, we have to assume several weeks pass. Yusuf only puts Cobb down for a few minutes, tops (which turns into a day or so in dream time). Cobb didn't have TIME to dream up everything that happened afterwards, because it would've taken weeks for the architect to design the dreams, and for Eames to properly do any kind of observational study of Browning to be able to mimic him. To me, this shoots the whole "he was dreaming from the sedative Yusuf gives him" theory in the foot. Arguments for him still dreaming: Point 1: The top doesn't fall (obvious) Point 2: When he wakes up in "reality", it isn't like the other times. Normally when he'd woken up, he'd still have everything attached. This time, the briefcase was long gone, and everyone else (seemingly) had been awake already Point 3: Wouldn't Fischer acknowledge him, at least a little? Fischer just had a fairly vivid dream about a group of people that look exactly like those in 1st class with him, and he doesn't even bat an eye lid or do a double take? Honestly, I do think he was dreaming (and that he will turn around, see the top still spinning, and then shoot himself in the head to try to wake up), but I can totally see why people would disagree. Here is why I personally think he is still dreaming. I'm probably over thinking this, but in every dream, they're in someone's mind. If he is still dreaming, is he lost in his own mind? If so, how did he come across the elderly Saito, and how did Saito end up in Cobb's subconscious? Was that made up, too, or was Saito in Cobb's dream? If Saito was in Cobb's dream, then wouldn't Saito be around at the end? If Cobb was somehow in Saito's dream, how would Saito be able to make up all of the details of Cobb's house that he's never seen? They say the 4th level is Limbo, but is that a shared limbo? I can see how Fischer got there (Mal killed him, and 'took' him into Cobb's subconscious), but how would Saito have gotten there? The whole concept of Limbo is troubling, because in every shared dream, they're in SOMEONE'S dream. Even when Cobb and Mal were in Limbo, they had to be in one of their shared dreams. So is limbo a shared limbo, because it would make no sense for Cobb to be able to find Saito, otherwise. Ultimately, I think the answer is that Saito was lost in his own limbo. I just can't figure out how Saito would've gotten into Cobb's dream Limbo, which leads me to believe that when Cobb went into Limbo with Ariadne, he never came out of it. His mind made up him finding Saito, them waking up, and him reconciling with his children after a job well done. Plus, they kept saying that when one dies in those dreams (because of the sedative), they go to Limbo, and there was no way out. If killing yourself in levels 1, 2, and 3 put you in Limbo (under that particular sedative), how the hell would killing yourself in level 4 get you out? His character was already dead in levels 1 (drown), 2 (exploded in an elevator), and 3 (blown up and crushed when the facility they were in blew up), so it wasn't like he could just go up a level.
True, but in my opinion that would still cheapen the narrative a bit. Not a whole lot, because I got a lot of satisfaction knowing that he finally was able to see his kid's faces (dream or not), but if it's not real then a whole lot of work still needs to be done on his part. He would want to go about getting himself out of Limbo. Or at least I think he would. I guess an argument could be made the other way. I think he did. I thought I saw Fischer glance at Cobb when he walked past him at the baggage claim. Not 100 percent on that though.
See, that's why I think the ending is so brilliant. Who doesn't want the happy ending? Who doesn't want him to see his kid's faces in the end? The top is the only hard piece of evidence for that, and it provides just enough ambiguity for people to think he made it out. The audience's first reaction mirrors that of Cobb's. It's only after looking at the tiny details that one realizes there is a 0% chance he's in reality... just like how every other dream in the movie falls apart upon further examination. I already addressed what I feel is the significance of the ring. I could be wrong on that, but even if I am, there is no legitimate reason to believe that having the ring is mutually exclusive with dreaming. This point means nothing. You state above that he never saw his kids faces because his subconscious wouldn't let him. That doesn't mean Cobb doesn't know what they look like. There is no 100% certain conclusion to be reached here. However, his kids did not age, were wearing the same clothes, and were playing in precisely, frame for frame, the same position. There is evidence in the phone call Cobb made to his kids that they aged. Neither of the points above are arguable. That's what happens in the movie. You can't disagree with that. It's what happened. Nothing written above convincingly points to him dreaming. He could turn around... so what? I would argue that Cobb ignoring the top in favor of his kids is a metaphor for his choice between dream and reality. The top represents reality, his kids represent the dream. That's true. I've only seen the movie once, and now that you bring those things up, I can say I'm wrong on that point. Still, it doesn't invalidate the argument for a dream. In reality, people act with powerful wills. They don't in the end... so it's impossible to know either way. The only real evidence for him being in a dream lies in the final scene. I don't think anyone, me especially, said that. Why would someone think that? I'm not sure how limbo works. I read somewhere else that it was shared somehow, but I don't have time to dig it up atm. I'll post it later.
If there is one thing I hate, it's people over-analyzing things like books, movies, and art and pretentiously claiming they mean something beyond what the artist initially meant (as in me saying the Tucker Max book is a reflection upon society and consumerism, or some shit like that, when in reality, it's just a ton of stupid stories that should not be over analyzed). I think we can all agree that Nolan meant for the whole movie to be cryptic and let you, the viewer, use your god damn imagination to fill in the gaps. This DOES NOT entitle you to think other people's opinions are wrong, because it's your opinion in the first place you believe to be right, not a fact. So, Mr. Wolfe, kindly go back to your parents' basement til you learn how to properly communicate and debate. FOCUS: I'll add some fuel to the fire. First off, have any of you ever considered that the totem is not an accurate judge of what reality is and isn't? Remember how his wife locks it up in the safe, and he spins it and locks it back up? Can that be interpreted as the top always spinning regardless which state of dream he is in, despite the top from that dream falling over? Me and my girlfriend had different ideas of the whole structure. Here is her's: Reality (plane ride) 1st dream (kidnapping) 2nd dream (hotel/elevator) 3rd dream (snowy mountain) 4th dream (Cobb and Mal's city) Limbo (with old Saito) She thought after him and Saito (assuming so) killed themselves in Limbo, they all went back to reality. Yes, the kids clothing/age and the spinning top are arguments against this, but she's optimistic. However, she did not dismiss the possibility that when he killed himself in Limbo with Saito, it's possible that he just dropped into the 4th dream. If you recall the old-timey elevator scene, one of the levels was his memory of the kids. Perhaps he ended up there again but changed it subconsciously because he was free of the guilt about his wife. Here is my take on it, and I realize it's pretty ridiculous and do not dismiss anything that was mentioned prior. It's just another thought. reality (we never see this, but his wife goes here after jumping) 1st dream (reality/airplane) 2nd dream (kidnapping/van) 3rd dream (hotel/elevator) 4th dream (snowy mountain) 5th dream (decrepit version of cobb/mal city) 6th dream (back in the US with his kids) Not sure how the Saito's limbo scene plays into it, but I'll discuss this with people at work who have seen Inception several times by now and get their ideas and opinions. The reason I think that Mal's suicide was her exit from the dream world into reality, not from reality into death. Cobb's mind wanted to stay in the dream world, because that's the only way he could dream, so his subconscious created this elaborate scene to keep him in the dream world for as long as possible, thus all the levels of dreaming. Also, at one point, his wife actually says how crazy he is to believe he is actually some kind of international dream terrorist who is wanted in the states. This part I believed to be his subconscious telling him he should probably quit dreaming soon because in reality, maybe he has to take a shit and should wake up to do so. This means even the initial part which we the viewers think is reality is actually the first level of the dream world. Also, the movie is clearly taking part in modern day, and we obviously don't have any sorts of dream manipulating machines. They were also never explained in great detail, besides being some type of military tool, so I think Cobb invented them in his dream to prolong the dreaming experience. An even more insane possibility is that Ellen Page, who seemed to know a whole lot about a whole lot in the movie (and was surprisingly good), was actually hired to perform an inception on Cobb and make him forget about Mal. Just a crazy thought, so I'm not gonna go into detail on this one, nor would I even know where to start. or, of course, the whole movie is what happens to Leo's character after the end of Shutter Island. Or Titanic. Well, since these are just ideas, I won't really argue for/against them, so feel free to take them into consideration or get massively butthurt and type in all caps displaying your anger.
I have to see this movie another time on my own to watch it again. I was on a date when I went to see this, I knew it was going to be a mind fuck, but not this much of one. All I can definitely to say in this one, is that as much as I hate Ellen Page in everything else, she nailed what she was given here. And...I just remembered Gordon-Levitt was Cobra Commander. *Giggles*