I was totally shocked to see Desmond on the plane. I thought he and Penny would just live happily ever after. I'm pretty sure that the plane landed group (I'll call them the "landedies") is the universe coarse correcting itself. Locke getting to walk again, Charlie kicking his drug habit, Kate getting her freedom, but there are a few holes with this; the biggest being Hurley, and him being the luckiest guy in the world. I know Darlton made the rule that once you're dead, you're dead so who knows where this Sayid story will go.
This was the part that confused me the most. When I saw Desmond I thought "holy shit, not only did the plane not crash, but it changed the entire sequence of events for each character leading up to that point..." Except, you know, it looks like that's not true. Boone and Shannon's timelines are obviously different, and Hurley made the comment about being the luckiest guy alive (maybe he was being facetious? But it sure didn't sound like it). On the other hand, Jack and Kate's timelines looked to be the same, Locke still can't walk, and I'm unsure about Sun b/c they didn't make it totally clear whether or not she actually spoke English. The thing w/ Desmond sitting next to Jack briefly, then being nowhere to be found was (intentionally) odd, though (much like the suspense of finding out whether Locke can walk or Sun can speak English), so I don't know. EDIT: Errr, basically what Sherwood already said.
So we started with flash backs, then had flash forwards...now we have "flash sideways"? And don't forget about the island being a few hundred feet below the pacific ocean at the very beginning there in the alternate timeline. I think one of the best parts of this season will be seeing what happens in that alternate timeline, and how each character will realize that things are wrong/what is really happening. (I mean, they have to....right?) As for Juliette, I don't think she's gonna be coming back. You notice how Miles obviously couldn't hear 'dead Sayid' because he wasn't actually dead, but he heard Juliette. She's done. I am really interested in finding out how she knew that 'It Worked' though. EDIT: When I first saw Desmond on the plane, I thought that he knew what was going on. Maybe he still does. It was odd how he seemed to have up and disappeared right before the plane landed.
I second this. I got the vibe he knew what was up. My friend even yelled "They're all in on it!" EDIT: Also meant to say this is because "The rules don't apply to Desmond." According to Faraday anyway.
Wouldn't let me edit the post. Some more thoughts/questions: - Looked like a glimpse of a Dharma logo on the shark's during that weird underwater scene as the plane flew over in the alternate-2004. Whatever happened with the bomb, it didn't undo everything that happened in the original timeline in whatever reality we're in now. - Was Alternate-Locke just lying to Boone about the walkabout, or did he somehow manage it in his wheelchair? - Desmond was on the plane instead of Shannon. Is this part of the universe's "course-correction" in bringing everyone together? Since the island wasn't there, Desmond's boat couldn't have gotten stuck there and since the plane wasn't crashing, he needs to be on the plane to accomplish this. -Was Sun lying about not speaking English, or is this also part of the alternate-2004 reality? Maybe Jin was the one trying to leave Sun in this 2004. It would certainly explain the money in his suitcase.
Holy Shit Smokey set the whole fucking thing up. Smokey set the whole goddamn thing in motion. After Ethan shoots Locke, he gets visited by Richard who hands him a compass, tells him that he has to go off the island and bring his friends back in order to stop the flashes. He then tells him that he's going to have to die. Richard tells Locke this because Smokey, posing as Locke, told Richard to tell him that. Smokey needed the O6 back on the island. Smokey needed Locke dead. He set the whole thing in motion. Had it not been for that conversation, perhaps Locke never convinced '50s Richard that he's special, perhaps Richard never believes that Locke is destined to be their leader and perhaps none of this Locke being special stuff ever happens. Perhaps it's been Smokey pulling these strings all along.
Humor me, please. When did Smokey pose as Locke? I generally remember the traveling in time Locke/Alpert sequence, but I cannot figure out when Smokey would have posed as Locke.
As usual, things I thought, as I thought them: For the recap, I only had a couple thoughts, cause I've seen all that multiple times, and recently. I like Michael Emerson doing the narration, but it must be annoying for him. The cadence has to be hard to speak in. "But for Kate... It was a different journey. She boarded the plane in handcuffs... After growing up with an abusive Father... she decided she wasn't going to take it anymore..." I still get a little chocked up by some very brief scenes, even in recap. Sun's soul-piercing scream when the freighter blew up. Sawyer and Juliet saying they loved each other. Sawyer and Juliet when she fell down the shaft. A thought occurred to me with a brief glimpse of Abbadon. Man in Black (MIB) was the one who orchestrated John Locke coming to the island, getting off the island, coming back dead so he could use his likeness, correct? At least, that was heavily implied with the circumstances and the "You have no idea what I had to go through". Locke came to the island because of his attempted walkabout. Which was suggested by Abbadon, who works for Widmore. Clearly Ilana and her team are on Jacob's side, but now I'm 95% sure Widmore is on MIB's side. Anyway. LA X The title itself is a little odd. It's not LAX, the airport code, it's LA X. Maybe LA 10? LA variable? That would fit with the multiverse thing later. The "Previously on" showed Sayid getting shot. Seemed likely he would die at some point. That and the fact I couldn't avoid the rumor that a main character was going to die in one of the first two hours. Cindy the Stewardess only gave Jack one mini vodka this time around, not the two she gave him previously. First minor interesting difference. The second is, wasn't Rose terrified of flying before? The whole "My husband keeps reminding me that planes want to be in the air" thing was said with a great deal more fear and trepidation originally. And then, holy shit, Desmond is on the plane. In this reality, the island got blasted underwater by whatever effect the bomb had. That means Des never got stuck on the island in 2001, he likely completed his race around the world, and he might even be with Penny in this world's course of events. Then again, we know that the rules of time travel don't apply to Mr. Hume, so maybe he knows what's happened. Him disappearing later was certainly suspicious. In any case, the world where the bomb worked certainly has a lot of changes from the original. This is where I first started thinking about multiverse theory. In essence, every choice we have could be made more than one way, and every choice leads to different choices, different circumstances. The possibilities are, truly, endless. Seems to me that the bomb detonation unlocked one of these parallels. I guess when they heard Juliet alive, they decided, fuck Sayid, he can wait? Seemed kinda callous. At first when I saw Jacob my thought process was this. MIB was not supposed to be able to kill Jacob himself. But Jacob was still alive when MIB kicked him into the fire. So maybe he didn't die... Of course, then he told us he died. Silly me. When they backed up the van to pull out that beam... Jesus Christ, who carries a 60 foot chain in their van? And how far down was Juliet? She only seemed to be about 20-30 feet inside the center of the pit, but I thought that shaft was like 200-something feet deep. Oh well, I guess that one we can blame on tv production, like Charlie and Des being able to make it down to the Looking Glass station which was 240 feet under water. Ok, so MIB/Flocke is now clearly Smoky. "Sorry you had to see me like that" was a great line. And the Ash stops him. Well that brings up some interesting questions. The cabin was ringed with Ash. Smoky sure as shit didn't put it down, Jacob or someone who works for Jacob must have. So was Jacob in the cabin, and the Ash was to keep Smoky out, or was Smoky in the cabin, and the Ash was to keep him in? I can see both arguments, but I don't think we can know for sure one way or the other until we find out WHEN the ring of Ash was broken. We know Smoky is out when the Losties crash, since he was rumbling trees that first night. But we still don't know if it was Jacob or MIB in the cabin when Locke and Ben visited. And of course, that cabin wasn't built until sometime in the 70s/80s, since Horace Goodspeed is the one who built it. Part 2: When they told Jack they lost his Dad's body, my first thought was, "I'm gonna sue you for so much fucking money..." Kate finds old matches and an old torch with Montand's body. The matches still working, I buy. The torch? Not so much. I guess I don't know a whole lot about torch making, but wouldn't the rags of the torch need to be oiled or something? That shit is from 1988, it's probably pretty dry by now. Holy crap a lot of the same people have been on Lost and Deadwood. Sawyer's baby-momma Cassidy was Ms. Joanie Stubbs. Juliet's sister Rachel was Calamity Jane. Dharma's interrogator Oldham was EB Farnum. MIB was Silas Adams. And now the new hippy leader/translator from the temple is the guy that played Sol Starr. If they can find a way to get Ian McShane(Al Swearengen) on this show, I'm gonna nut myself. And Sayid is dead. Called it. Now we know how Ben was cured. The spring is obviously having some problems now that Jacob is dead. It's not clear like they thought it should be, and it didn't heal the Japanese dude's hand. Good to see Claire again, even if only for a brief second in that cab with Kate and the puppetmaster dude from Heroes. Flocke's little speech to Ben was cool. He wants to go... home? WTF? He's been on the island for centuries, and seems to have attained some crazy powers. The tapestry in Jacobs little area was in Greek, if I remember. Perhaps they're demi-gods? Seems a little silly. But I really want to know more about it. Miles gave Sayid's body quite a look. Did he hear something crazy? Or nothing at all? Flocke is glad to see Richard out of chains. Two possible meanings I can think of. One, like people have been guessing, it could mean that the last time he saw Richard, he was in chains on the slave ship Black Rock. Two, metaphorical chains of service to Jacob. I think the second is more likely. It depends on if/how long MIB was trapped in that Ash circle, but it doesn't seem likely he never would have seen Richard since he was in chains in the 1800s. And then, of course, Sayid is alive again. That one I only barely saw coming because of the look Miles gave him. Wow. Good start to the final season, and I'm very stoked to get more. Actually, we found out that Locke was MIB from the time he got back to the island on Ajira, not the whole time. I don't think so. I don't think Sayid actually died. I think he came very very close, but I think the healing spring got to him in the nick of time. It just took some time to work. I'd like to know this as well. Same shark we saw in season 2, when Michael and Sawyer were floating on raft bits. I guess that shark had already been branded and released for tracking by 1977. Either Locke was lying to Boone about going on the walkabout, or he did go on a walkabout, but one that started 10-15 days before the one he was originally scheduled for, or he wouldn't be on 815. I honestly didn't pick this up about Sun. I thought she was just lying to the customs lady so Jin wouldn't find out. I think that's still likely, but it's possible she doesn't know English in this parallel. I thought that was obvious from the way he said "You have no idea what I've gone through" to Jacob last year. Smokey's scheming makes Ben look like a little kid unsuccessfully trying to steal legos from others. Smokey posed as Locke after Ajira crashed on the island. Smokey as Locke was the one who told Richard what to tell the Locke that was shot in the leg who was still flashing through time.
Eh, I just don’t think flocke is capable of out thinking Jacob. Jacob knew he was gonna die since he made the list that he gave to hurley right? None of this is new, but it seems to me that Jacob has a broader plan that has been in motion way longer than Flocke’s plan to get off the island or whatever. Smokey just seems to be too immature/temperamental and focused on himself. I don’t know.. I was actually feeling smokey when he utterly destroyed that annoying guy from flight 316, but then he started being a whiny bitch. Also, the Island being underwater was something that I did not see coming. Honestly thought it was some kind of joke beginning, like starting off as raiden in mgs3. Not really sure how much I’m feeling the whole “we never crashed” thing. But then again, Locke meeting Jack for the first time was awesome as fuck. Thought it was interesting how Locke and Jack switched rolls completely. Locke saying his condition was irreversible and Jack saying nothing is irreversible seems completely out of the norm compared to Jack usually being a “man of science” or whatever. This is a highly unlikely scenario, but damn, itd be awesome if some of the others took real Locke to the “Lazarus Pit” and resurrected him and then he had an epic hand to hand duel with flocke on top of the volcano while it erupted. Also, glad to have asshole Sawyer back That is all
Darlton on the "Flash-Sideways" and the multiverse. And it looks like Doc Jensen put up a collumn right before the premier.
I'm not usually one to contribute to these threads; I usually just like reading others' enlightened ramblings, but what the hell, I'll give it a shot. Am I the only one that thought the alternate reality, where everyone lands with the plane, is just one where Jacob had no involvement in their lives? In the recap show, they reminded me how Jacob had had a role in many of the Losties' lives far before the crash, so if he hadn't been there, perhaps that could explain all the slight differences noticed on that plane. Hugo being lucky, etc. I'm wondering if that also could somehow explain why the island was shown at the bottom of the ocean in that reality, which I think is a pretty big question that was posed. Someone speculated that it was a result of the bomb, but the bomb had always gone off in all realities, right? That's why Pierre Chang had the prosthetic, as shown in many episodes, because as was shown his arm got crushed or whatever right before the bomb went off. Although how he survived that is...well I don't know. Ok, dumb idea. Whatever, just throwing it out there. But I also wanted to say that I agree with iczorro about Richard and the chains comment most likely being about Richard somehow being in service to Jacob. That's how it struck me when I heard it. (Why I even bother theorizing I have no idea. I get the feeling I'm going to feel like an utter jackass next week or later when the truth is revealed.)
Hurley wasn't touched by Jacob until right before the Ajira flight, three years after 815. And Chang's arm got crushed by the magnetic force of the incident crushing the metal scaffolding down on his arm before the bomb ever went off. So, I think we're meant to think that the bomb did not go off in every reality.
Fair enough, but my understanding was Chang wouldn't have lost his arm if not for the Losties' attempt to detonate the bomb. My memory may be off, but checking Lostpedia on Chang makes it seem like it happened because of the actions of Jack and the others, and wouldn't have necessarily happened without their interference (and consequently, without the bomb detonating).
Actual question: Was the water muddy because MiB killed Jacob (or should I say, because Jacob is dead) ? If the water was their fountain of eternity (pretty well hinted at), was it Jacob's death that muddied it? In either case, did Sayid get replaced by Jacob ala Floke or did the fountain save his normal, Sayid I'm-a-toturaaa life?
That was certainly the impression that was given. They didn't know it was muddy, they didn't know Jacob was dead, and Hurley connected the dots for them, then they lost their shit. Saved his normal life. Flocke/MIB is still over at the foot beating on Richard. My impression is that the incident was going to happen whether they were there with the bomb or not. And since it was the incident that caused him to lose the arm, and not the bomb...
and motherfuckin' Arzt. Never forget Arzt. I'm really digging the alternate 815 timeline and I'm interested to see where they go with it. Is Jack going to fix Locke's back? Is Desmond aware of what's going on? What about Jack? When he was in the airplane bathroom, he checked the band aid on his neck and the look on his face implied that he could vaguely remember something. In fact, I got that feeling multiple times during that flash...sidways. Also, what in the hell is Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat doing at the temple/fountain of youth? I don't think the reason Sayid is alive is because Jacob is using his body. The MIB/smoke monster didn't take over Locke's body, he just took his form. Whereas Sayid just came back to life, if he was even dead in the first place.
But didn't Flocke come about after all this (the flashing through time, etc) had already taken place?
After the flashing in the shows timeline. But locke had flashed to 2007 right after the ajira crash. Same fat brought faraday et al to the future beach where sun found the ds ring. Smokey's home... On or off island? Why did jacob's death lead the templeites to believe that smokey was coming after them? And I do think its possible that the second coming of said is actually jacob. He seemed to speak oddly when he awoke, a different accent. Ps. Writing on a smartphone is fucking annoying
A. We don't even know if Jacob can assume other people's forms. B. Then where is Sayid's body? I think this is one instance where everyone is going to over think it for the week, while the best answer is probably the simplest (if there is such a thing on this show). He didn't die, not quite.