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Mad Men - Season 4

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by WickedBitch, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. Chirpy

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    I don't get all the hatred for Betty. I don't particularly like her as a character but I am certainly intrigued by her. I just wish they gave a little more insight into her relationship with Henry. It's so damn awkward and uncomfortable that I can't help but want to know more about it.

    Which leads me to my question: what exactly is Henry's motivation? I was really struck by last week's episode when Don came to pick up his boxes and Henry was mowing the lawn. There he was, a man who is just as powerful in the workforce as Don and has completely lost his identity. He's just he replacement man. Why on earth would he be satisfied just stepping into Don's shoes so readily and willingly?
     
  2. El Tee

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    I'll confess: as much as I dislike Betty, I don't hate her nearly as much nor in the same way as I hate Eric Murphy from "Entourage". (Kate Austen and Tim McManus are no longer on the air, so I'll keep them out of the discussion.) For me, the Betty hate is split pretty evenly between the character as she exists in the fictional world and the character as she exists in my world as a viewer.

    I recently started re-watching "Mad Men" from the beginning, and as I remembered Betty Draper has always been a pretty unpleasant woman. It's not like she flipped a switch later and turned into a raging bitch; she simply got better at it. And it's not like you can blame her behavior entirely on Don, either. As it's been pointed out, even Henry seems to be getting sick of her shit.

    But in a more meta sense, her scenes and storylines have always run counter to what I think most people find more fascinating about "Mad Men", namely the stuff that takes place at Sterling Cooper (Draper Pryce). But here's where I'm going to assume Matt Weiner is a writing genius and figure that he knows the audience will be just as annoyed with the Draper home drama as Don himself is, and by that he's raised the level of visceral involvement with "Mad Men" that is unmatched by any show on television today.

    So it's weird. I dislike Betty a lot, but I usually feel like that's what I'm supposed to do so it actually makes me dislike her a little less at times. (Eric Murphy, on the other hand, is someone I suspect the viewers are supposed to think is some sort of tiny little hero, which makes me despise him even more.)
     
  3. Roxanne

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    I dislike Betty because she is a selfish spoiled brat who thinks that she is a huge victim. Worst of all, you get the sense that she sees her children as a burden and blames them in part for her life not being amazing.

    She is the worst kind of mother, and an unpleasant person in general. The annoying part is Don's philandering and lies actually gave her a leg to stand on with her holier-than-thou attitude, but in the end it's nearly impossible to feel sympathy for her.

    What I am trying to say is that I hope she falls in a well and gets eaten by sand crabs.
     
  4. Supertramp

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    Jesus Christ SCDP is going to fall to pieces.

    Sterling - Lost his only account.
    Cooper - Lost his balls.
    Draper - Lost his identity.
    Pryce - Lost his chocolate mama.

    also

    Joan - Lost both her sense of youth and her kid.
    Campbell - Lost his 4M$ account.


    also, was it just me or is Don going to fuck up his good thing with his maternal-like girlfriend by tapping that large mouthed secretary?
     
  5. El Tee

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    Excuse me? How dare you trivialize and demean the love of Lane's life! Treat her with some respect, sir...her name is "chocolate bunny".

    More importantly, Faye just entered the Dick Whitman Circle of Trust along with Betty, Pete, and Bert Cooper. Unfortunately, she's nowhere near as invested in keeping the secret as the others, and she may just end up being the one that ruins it for Don.

    This episode wasn't as creatively amazing as "The Suitcase" but it was certainly the most action-packed of the season. Jon Hamm's Emmy reel just got a little longer, what with all of the terror-stricken moments and panic attacks.

    But the most fascinating performance of the night came from Vincent Kartheiser. I thought Pete Campbell was fucking awesome tonight. His reaction when Don mentioned the background investigations was one of pure giddiness; it meant the $4M account was on track. That changed to one of concern when he realized what the DoD would be asking for, though. I don't think anyone can blame him for not considering what that could mean for Don; it has been about five years since Pete played the Whitman card to Cooper and it's not like that subject is ever at the forefront of anyone's mind.

    I liked that Pete's motives for choosing to protect Don over making his bones with NAA were left fairly ambiguous. He clearly does not like eating shit for Don's sake, and couldn't have imagined he'd have to deal with Roger's barrage of projected shortcomings at the partner's meeting. But, he did seem to get off on the fact that a) Don told him SCDP would survive under Pete's leadership if it came to that, and b) he fancies himself an actual honest broker in the ad business...despite the fact that he shook down his father-in-law for Vick's account, took Ho-Ho's jai alai money in bad faith, and staged a fight over canned ham. But then again, that's Pete Campbell for you.

    It'll be very interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out, but I think it's a safe bet that Season 4's DVD cover is going to feature the "Who is Don Draper?" quote in bold print somewhere. (And maybe the extra features will feature a hand-to-hand combat video featuring Robert Pryce.)
     
  6. WickedBitch

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    She lost that shit a long time ago. A few episodes ago when Joan went to her doc to get the all-clear to start trying with her husband, she asked what those "procedures" could mean for her chances. I can't remember if she said she'd had two or three but I know it was more than one.

    Part of me kind of hopes the "procedure" didn't work and they end up together. I hate Joan's husband and Roger is so in love with her that it would be nice to see her come out ahead for once. I'd like to think that Roger would actually be faithful to her if they started something legit but I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
  7. Parker

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    Whoa whoa whoa. Not so fast. I don't think Draper lost his identity, he almost did. Pete already knew + he is Don's biggest fan next to Peggy (I bet they both moaned Don's name when they fucked those two times). Girlfriend is too smart not to know.
    Pryce may go to London and cut everything off with his old hag.

    Also, uh, come on now...really. Really? Really. We've been watching Mad Men for a long time. Joan lied about having a daughter, and next scene we see her on the bus. No going in the office, no procedure. You think they are going to present a dire problem like that and sweep it under the rug? No way. I'll bet there is a silver haired ginger baby on its way.
     
  8. Kubla Kahn

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    Yes I think this show would do just that, it has a knack for doing it. Peggy had a surprise baby in season one, how much has that come up? Two, three times maybe? Joan has fully engaged herself into a relationship outside of her marriage, now she can either stick it out with her husband OR be with Roger. Having the abortion would give her that choice.
     
  9. El Tee

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    The setup for Joan's pregnancy was done very early this season; she wants to have a kid, and for some reason she wants to have one with her rapist husband. Roger was simply a happy and opportunistic sperm donor, and after he begged out of wanting to be involved with it that made the decision to keep it and raise it as Greg's all that much easier (whether he makes it home alive or not).

    I'd bet money that waiting room scene pushed her into the "keep it" column. It's one thing to lie about having a kid to pretend you're not the one there having the abortion, and another to say you have a kid by way of wishful thinking. I could very well be wrong, but I think it was the latter, and as we approach the end of the season the sight of a newly pregnant Joan with swollen mommy-boobs is exactly the kind of "cliffhanger" this show would give us as it goes off the air for a year (not to mention it gives some narrative weight to the hiatus between 1965-1966).
     
  10. Parker

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    I gotta post this here because I'll be so fucking happy it is true. People on ESPN have a thing for Mad Men, so on the Bill Simmons podcast, one of his guests predicts that Don Draper is going to save the Lucky Strike account by having Salvatore come back and fuck Jr. Going along with this prediction, I think it'd be cool since theoretically Salvatore could have been opening up his eyes to how gay he actually is and embracing it. So he comes back open to the idea. I think it'd be cool. Funny how we forgot how gay that Jr. actually is.
     
  11. audreymonroe

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    Actually, I thought that whole scene with him and Roger at dinner was him trying to get Roger to blow him or something. Like, "Well, I could take my business elsewhere...or you could save your company and convince me to stay..."

    But maybe that's just because I turn everything into gay porn. Shrug.

    I've almost stopped thinking it's worth it to say "Holy shit, what a great episode!" after each episode because there hasn't been a single less-than-thrilling episode yet this season. Not like I didn't enjoy last season, but there were a couple of times where I was felt a little thrown off in a bad way, like it wasn't the same show anymore, or getting a little tired of Don's bitching. But they are one hundred percent back on track this season. Once his true identity was revealed to Betty, I was confused about where they were going to go with the show once such an integral part of the drama was resolved. Or so I thought. Bringing it back to the forefront with the security clearance was brilliant, and gives it so much more weight all over again.

    I just want Joan and Roger to be together with their love child and do it all day every day.
     
  12. Kubla Kahn

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    This season has been a high ride. After each episode I feel fantastic about every one. This last one was no different. I love how this show has such an ensemble of characters and kind of randomly shines a spot light on their lives and the troubles they face. Roger looks more pathetic than ever lying to the company about their biggest account and then losing Joan. I wish we still had vcash, I think my prediction about Joan actually having the abortion still stands.

    Is it me or does the show really seem to be trying to highlight Don's inability to deal with women on an emotional level this season? Now he's fucked his new secretary while fucking over his secret girlfriend. He also has not been able to make any sort of inroads to fixing his troubles with his exwife and their problems with their daughter. He placates Sally while she is around only to dump her off again on Betty. In my opinion I think the scene with Sally running from Don and falling in front of all the women at SCDP illustrated to them his problems with women as a whole and not just his problems with Betty and his daughter. Though they are probably aware of Betty's personality but they are probably more familiar with the women problems that are directly related to work.
     
  13. El Tee

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    I'll give Don a tiny amount of credit for making a nominal effort to keep his dick out of Megan's skirt, though the girl was clearly DTF and I'm not sure even Sal could have fought her off. However, you know that if Peggy ever finds out about it she's going to be like "Seriously? How can I tell people I didn't fuck you to get my job when you're banging every chick that works here?"

    But speaking of dick moves, I thought Don yelling at Pete for losing Glo Coat - in light of the shit sandwich Pete swallowed for him last week - might be the dramatic conflict the last two episodes will deal with.
     
  14. Kubla Kahn

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    Thats actually a really good point. It gives him more reason to consider jumping ship. Though Don later backed him against Sterling losing the Lucky Strike account. I have a feeling that Pete is way too emotionally invested in this firm to leave. Plus he's always loathed his in laws meddling in his life. I think his father in law setting up the meeting will influence him more than Don's comments.

    He seems like a very capable business man but I wonder if Don truly thinks this or if he is just holding onto him because he doesn't want his double life to get out. Work wise he seems to treat him with the same respect he does Peggy but with the way he's completely freaked the times his double life was almost exposed. It isn't hard to think he'll hang on to him no matter what.
     
  15. El Tee

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    I think the respect is sincere, and it was clear when Don and Roger chose him over the ostensibly more "qualified" Ken Cosgrove when they formed SCDP. Plus, Don did tell him that the company would be fine in Pete's hands if Don had to run from the feds. He may not be personally fond of him the way he is of Peggy, but I don't doubt that he thinks highly of him as an account man.

    The real issue is that Don has a hard time saying thank you, which was obvious during his heart-to-heart with Peggy a few weeks ago. And it doesn't help that Don's modus operandi in life is to compartmentalize and forget tough things as if they never happened, which is diametrically opposed to Pete's tendency for self-righteousness and obessessing over percieved slights. Pete probably feels that Don owes him an indefinite solid after he stuck his neck out to keep his secret (and let's face it: he's right), while Don has probably already shut the door on the whole event in his mind. But if anything, I think it's the lesser secret - Don's ethically-challenged relationship with Faye - that may be the card Pete ends up revealing before the end.
     
  16. Harry Coolahan

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    It was another solid episode but I gotta say I really wasn't digging the stereotypical female subservience by Don's girlfriend, secretary, and Cooper's wife. I don't know if there was an intended theme there in this episode but it seemed a little too unrealistic—out of character for a show like this. Something about that seemed a bit weak to me.
     
  17. audreymonroe

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    I disagree. Except for Faye, whose decision to help Don out seemed very out of character and disappointed me a bit (but I'm pretty sure was needed to move the show's drama long), I wouldn't say anything about this episode made the female characters seem particularly spineless. Jane has always been pretty subservient, but that's because she's lame. And she wasn't doing anything especially subservient in this episode. I thought getting Cooper's memoirs published for him was kind of nice.

    I think you were misunderstanding Don's secretary's motives though. I'm pretty sure she was sleeping with him to move up in the company, hence why she suddenly revealed that she had higher dreams than being just a secretary and came in there to get more of a handle on how things actually work. This was probably fueled by the rumors of Peggy getting to be a copywriter because she slept with Don, and she might've sensed an opening with the company falling apart and getting desperate.
     
  18. El Tee

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    I thinkt the show has been trying to set up Megan as some sort of special snowflake that is different from all of the other girls in the SCDP steno pool; she's half-French, artistic, has great skin, etc... And even better, she apparently possesses a more convenient sense of self-esteem that will presumably keep her from running out of Don's office post-coitus the way Allison did.

    But was she throwing herself at Don in order to get a promotion? I'm not sure. It's certainly possible, but I think it's more likely she's just got a hard on for Don Draper and saw her opportunity to get laid. That would be more in line with the "modern woman" motif that Season 4 has been slapping us across the face with, one in which Peggy has usually been the main character (and contrasted by Jane Sterling and Trudy Campbell, for example). But of course, as much as Peggy is DTF guys outside of the office this show isn't going to set her up with Don like that. Megan seems like a proxy for the theme, and it allows Don Draper's desk to remain the single most exciting place to work at SCDP.
     
  19. Rudolph

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  20. WickedBitch

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    Dead god, yes! You could open beer bottles with that overbite. It bothers me.