where does it say for sure it went off in the car? once again if that was the case ferguson pd would have a clean case to throw up and not be in this shit. there is a reason they haven't, there is a reason the store video was sent out as a smoke screen, there is a reason they're holding back this much information. hey, is it possible that he was facing forward with his hands up, got shot in the arm a few times looked down to see he got shot then got shot in the head? oh of course not, he's black he was doing something wrong like charging the policeman. both are equally viable possibilities? why and how did you come to your conclusion? it isn't a specific thing. it is the looking at this specific case and trying to break it apart and putting a focused blame on michael brown. there is a lot of "but maybe michael brown did this!" "well he isn't innocent because this grainy unsubstantiated video looks like a dude who could be him robbed someone. there isn't a chance he was innocent!" it's the lack of trying to think "holy shit, this dude was 18, about to start college in a week and he's dead. that's fucked up." it's the active searching for reasons why michael brown got shot and how its okay. it's the refocusing of the issue on police militarization and not the core problem, which is the racism. by your own admission, police target minorities more, but then you say the problem is the action. when it is the why, not the what or how, is the problem. not saying you're part of the kkk, but there is a framing of the situation which takes away from the core problem, that is influenced by racism. it's the avoidance of the elephant in the room (not saying what color it is) that is the problem. a black kid gets shot and its "militarization of the police" because "of course the black kid had something to do with it." the problem is the "police stormed the streets in riot gear! that's the problem here!" nope, it's the fact the black kid got shot, and everyone not only doesn't care, but automatically assumes with quarter-assed information that in a way he did something to get shot.
i'm curious how many people participating in this thread have either a) taken the life of another human being or b) been a part of someone dying a violent death? i ask because - it isn't an easy thing. it isn't taken lightly. there's a reason asking "how many hajis ya kill?" is considered rude. i don't believe the officer should've fired his weapon, based on what i've seen/read. however, i also don't believe he fired the weapon with the conscious thought "here we go, gonna get rid of us another damn n". doing so, intentionally, would be the end of his life and career. i could be completely wrong, and he may very well have figured that ending brown's life was worth losing his entire life for, but man. that's a helluva thing. i think this entire situation is a tragedy, an avoidable tragedy, and that yes brown was intentionally shot but he wasn't maliciously shot. i think the officer misread the situation and overreacted. i don't think rioting, looting, ransacking, and being a nuisance to public order are necessary to be heard. peaceable assembly, marching, chanting, holding signs. cool. go for it. destruction and mayhem? not so awesome, nor helpful.
from cnn... there... have i made any conclusions? i don't think so. you are right, he could just as well have been shot trying to surrender. but i'm trying to look at both sides of the story here, and i hope that doesn't make me racist by default now.
i'm going to lean towards innocent until proven guilty, which we really can't do, because he's dead and all. so let's settle on "not guilty." preliminary investigation. can't wait to see what happens once they get a hold of that police cruiser and check it out. i'm really curious as to what started the alleged confrontation in the first place, because he had to reach in through a window or an open door with the officer sitting and him standing to have said altercation. and shimmered, i could not fucking agree with you more. that looting is done by fucking idiots who don't even care about the situation but took advantage of the emotion of the situation. as i said in my first post in this thread, it's bullshit.
if you lean to innocent until proven guilty for brown, you have to lean to innocent until proven guilty for the wilson as well. otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
\ white people get fucked up by police too. look up ron hillstrom. he was beaten to death by the cops as he cried for his dad. im not saying there isn't racism anywhere ever, im saying that its a step backwards for society when every time something like this happens that the kneejerk reaction is that its motivated by racism. i understand the impulse to make that assumption, and i don't really blame black people for doing it given the history of the country. but i also understand that its easier to get everyone to think that theres institutionalized racism keeping black people down than that community looking introspectively and realizing they're the reason they're falling further and further behind other groups. it also doesnt help the black cause when race baiters are actively feeding and feeding off that narrative.
our you could rephrase that as not being willing to immediately assume that a human being murdered a stranger for no fucking reason.
also, were 14 pages in and this is a contentious topic, so a reminder to all... if anyone starts taking cheap shots or being a dickhead, they get a 24 hour ban. carry on.
regarding your friend's fb quote, i was in st. louis on thursday and friday, even saw some of the early protestors in front of what i guess was city hall - it's what pretty much everybody was talking about on the buses and metro rail. direct quote: "it's not even a black/white thing, it's a 'police have too much power' thing."
i honestly think one of the best points made here is one by afhokie about the makeup of the police force vs the demographics of the community they serve, and a lack of interaction/cohesion between the two. in this case, it has a racial component, as it often does, but that's not the end all be all. like i said, i grew up in an affluent suburb with resentful cops. there were some good ones to be sure, but the ones who resented being blue collar amongst children, and adults, of privilege, had a very different outward demeanor and set of actions. and it doesn't have to be like that, there are plenty of stories of great cross-racial relationships between leos and their constituents. a white cop was killed recently in an act of gang violence in chicago and the uproar was from the black community he served speaking on what a great officer he was and chastising the pos who killed him. there is always going to be some form of tension between police and citizens in areas where crime occurs more often then not, but it doesn't have to be derision or distaste like it seems it might have been/still is in ferguson.
and to be frank race is a huge factor, but not the only one. the minority community is very marginalized. look at the federal prison population for drug offenses and blacks and latinos are disproportionately represented. i'm a law abidding college educated latino and even i freak out a bit when i see the police despite doing nothing wrong.
seriously, you're going to warn everyone to stay on their respectful tippy-toes here while posting the bolded above? that sentence sounds an awful lot like "black people be dangerous and lazy and they need to admit it."
is it hypocrisy when one guy is dead and the other is representative of the law? juice...morecowbell said it better. clutch, it would be lovely if we didn't have to willingly make that assumption, but there has been a very recent history of (white police officer) humans murdering or harming (black) strangers for no reason, just because. that is a reality, not an assumption, a hypothetical, or a nightmare. for the record, when if i've said "this would never happen to a white person." that's obviously not true. but given the population of white folks vs minorities, the percentages of this occurrence to the latter group is way higher than what it should be to the point where its unjust. 2% of one group and 20% of another group is a fucking situation. "it happens to everyone" doesn't make-up or explain that discrepancy. latingroove just mentioned incarceration rates, yes "everyone gets thrown in jail", but if 10% of those people are white and 60% are black and latino, come the fuck on. especially when there are more white people. based on population alone, there should be more incidents of white people if racism wasn't the largest (one of many, i know) underlying factors. it's just fucked up shit guys, just fucked up. now i can understand not being part of the group, it's difficult to understand the problem, but holy hell it's there. i have two degrees, look like a hybrid of jamie foxx and denzel washington and don't dress "ghetto". i get pretty concerned with police officers at night, in certain neighborhoods stopping me just because they think i'm up to no good. i've been stopped by police officers multiple times as a teen (one of those times wearing a hoodie) because "you look like a suspect" when i started talking like carlton banks, they quickly told me to move on.
i didnt say people couldnt say something controversial, i said it get cant get personal. you can interpret my post with your racism goggles all you want. i was saying the problems with the black community is internal, not external. not once did i even allude to dangerous or lazy.
i think the overarching theme is the wholesale disregard of everyone's civil rights when dealing with corrupt cops. there is no doubt that some have it worse than others. none. however, there is a cow five awakening as it relates to civil rights and the law enforcement industrial complex. how many constitutionally protected rights have been violated in ferguson alone? i can think of three four from the bill of rights off the top of my head. so why start killing and eating each other when there's the strong potential of a sea change?
my assumption is this is rhetorical. the bolded portion is the important part. it shouldn't happen at all. white black brown yellow blue green orange red purple gay straight cis trans whatever - it shouldn't happen. you can't get pissed about it happening to one group and not pissed about it happening to another group just because it happens more often to the first group without being a hypocrite. get angry, protest, yell, write your congressmen, whatever - but do it every time.
purely out of curiosity -- i think we can agree than in 1820 the problems with the black community were external. you believe that they are now internal. when, in your opinion, did that shift occur? as a followup (if i may), what was the precipitating incident that shifted that balance in favor of your internal hypothesis? thanks in advance!
it's only a minor distinction, but it bothers me that people in the media keep framing it like he was about to enroll at howard. dude was going to learn how to fix air conditioners.