Mike Brown shooting/Ferguson, MO

one of the most important parts of that story was the cop shooting brown in the back while he was running away. if he lied about that, why should i believe a single word of it?


as for why white people complain about the cops in rural areas, it turns out that that's where the poor white people are.

 

parker, clearly race is a bigger issue to you in this case than militarization of the police. based on this statement above, what do you think the likely outcome would be if militarized police force started rolling into south chicago?

 

first, race is the bigger issue period. it shouldn't just be a bigger issue to me either. it should be the bigger issue to all of us. then we all could focus on the next issue together.

i'm not saying militarization of the police isn't an issue. what i am saying show me the body count in regards "militarization of police" vs one or two police officers with hands, handcuffs, standard issue batons and 9mms riding in a 1990 beat-up crown victoria. show me which of those two categories have falsely more people in jail. they didn't have sniper rifles on the roof when they choked that kid out. they didn't have riot gear on when they beat up rodney king.

second, if they stopped the 500 homicides over the course of 4 months every summer in chicago? some people would offer to polish their riot shields. there is a real gang, drug, violence problem in the south side. there wouldn't be any symbolic rage against the concept of the militarization of the police.

 

they are both issues. that town has 12,000 people. 66% black. something like 55 officers and three are black. do the math. four unarmed black kids have been shot dead by cops in america the last few months.

and militarization is a huge issue. i go to detroitat least three times a year and even that city does not need bearcats patrolling it. tows of 4000 people in the states are now equipping themselves with those armoured beasts. what are they preparing for, exactly? besides those two armoured assholes in los angeles, how many times have citizens gone toe-to-toe with the police in a firefight?

also what happened to this kid is an issue. he was shot in the face twice, not at close range. and four other times, in broad daylight unarmed. somebody representing st. louis county needs to answer for that and instead they real ease that video store footage at the exact same time as they released the name of the officer who shot him. i'm kind of skeptical that was a coincidence.

 

relevant: police shot an unarmed black kid.

irrelevant: everything else, including: what kid was doing, wearing, saying, who kid was with, whether kid was a "thug", etc.

how hard is that?

 

well...shit. i mean, yeah, if you wanted to be all concise about it.

 

budgets gotta be spent, man. no one ever says "they allocated us all this money, but we don't really need it so let's send it back." money tends to find a purpose, and next year's requested budget is always "last year's plus a little more." and politically, no one wants to be the guy who decided to spend less on crime-fighting that the previous guy.

part of why "militarization" tends to be a kinda white and suburban concern is that in an urban environment, you just don't need to be militarized to wreak havoc, and people tend to deal with the most immediate threat to them. see this case for example. while militarization isn't good per se, urban (black) youth are taking good ol' fashioned batons to the face. they figure they'll worry about abstract issues like militarization once they stop getting kicked in the gut by police officers, since one of these tangibly hurts.

 

yeah, the fact that a 300lb man assaulted a stranger for trying to interrupt his criminal act couldn't possibly provide context as to how he ended up in a situation where he gets shot.

 

how is his friend's story bullshit? did you read dr. baden's autopsy and look at the included diagram? fire a weapon in rapid succession and even for an experienced shooter, the rounds will typically climb due to recoil which supports dr. baden's theory the head shot was the final shot. all six entry points are in the front half of the body. four of which are on the front side of his right arm? he states the likely final shot was the one to the top of the head, which would've only happened if he had his head down while surrendering or charging towards the officer. if he was surrendering with his head down and his hands up, the front half of his arm would've actually been to the rear. so yea, based on physical evidence i'd say his friend's story has a lot of inaccuracies.

do i think he should've been shot? hell no.

do i think michael brown was the angel his friends & family make him out to be? also hell no.

these are two separate issues with the same catalyst. personally, i don't think leaders on either side have any real interest in fixing the root problem.

back to the militarization issue. do you really think it's a small rural community issue? what demographic do you think is targeted most by no knock warrants? i'll give you a hint...it's not ruralville whitey. you state you wish you could get militarized police in the southwest side of chicago. tell me you still feel that way a week after they start. heavily armed convoy's and 3am raids didn't improve the situation in baghdad. meaningful engagement and daily 'not coming to capture/kill' interaction with the communities did.

do i think police should have every tool available at their disposal? i do. however, i do not think they get a pass to use them just because they have them. it's the whole 'everything looks like a nail when you're only tool is a hammer' problem. many pd's are focusing on tacticool equipment instead of training and community policing.

i won't pretend to know the in's and out's of how the ferguson pd operates, but it doesn't sound like they ever socialized with the very people they're supposed to protect and serve. i don't think for a second that white cops can't socialize and integrate within a black community if the truly want to. if they get out of their cars, walk a beat and actually interact with the locals on a day to day basis it'll happen. if a soldier from arkansas can successfully interact with a local in baghdad why can't a white cop and a black man? those two have a lot more common ground than the solider and iraqi.

however, an article stated ferguson's demographic at ~86% black, yet all but a few of the ferguson pd are white. you can blame police department recruiting, but i'll ask this question: what's the typical reaction from friends and family to a black person who expresses an interest in becoming a policeman?

oh, and according to http://www.worldatlas.com/citypops.htm seoul korea is the 3rd largest city in the world. chicago is 28th.

 

i'll suggest chicago and other high-violence areas have a serious issue with actually enforcing their laws to begin with too.

i keep reading "unarmed" like it means the person can't be a serious threat to others if they don't have a weapon, like it automatically grants the victim innocence. unarmed does not mean "not capable of serious harm." that is not a comment meant to weigh in on brown vs. the officer, but just on these discussions overall. for all i know brown could be 100% innocent but likewise that cop could have been facing a serious threat too.

 

wasn't there an article somewhere that claimed that once california officers started wearing cameras complaints against the department dropped by 90%? anyway you're going to love this next comment i found in this article. my head almost exploded when i read it. link is to an article which says there are now protesters demonstrating in support for the officer who shot mr. brown.

link

 

i've seen enough folks shot to know it's nothing like the movies.

your theory is also possible, but i'm going by what the available physical evidence tells my untrained forensic pathology eye.

i think an episode of csi explored a story of a guy getting shot in the back while facing his attacker. the explanation in the show had the two men in a scuffle and the guy shot in the back was trying to tackle the other guy so he was down low. the other was able to shoot down into his back with his free hand.

bottom line: somewhere in the middle of each witness's story is the truth looking to be heard.

 

this. most people who are shot in the abdomen curl up and fall to the ground. a lot of the time it takes them a second to react unless the shot is instantly fatal.

 

here's your article.

huh... the numbers are compelling. so how much do these things cost? the article doesn't mention. i'd like to know what any leos here think of them.

 

because all the shots were at a distance. the autopsy showed no powder or residue. so even if you were charging like a bull, i don't know if that necessitates deadly force, much less 6 rounds from 20 feet away, or however far it was.

to me, this reaction from ferguson pd and st louis county just makes them look guilty, right or wrong. like parker and crown said, multiple young black men have been killed by police recently, in less than "criminal" circumstances, but this one has incited such a firestorm because of the terse reaction to any media or public outrage. if protesters are not met with riot police and media members arrested and detained for spurious reasons, this wouldn't have spiraled out of control. thats not to say the issues at play and brought up are not worthy of addressing, cause they absolutely are, but its just the needless escalation of conflict.

its like the cat being poisoned for going in the neighbor's lawn. smaller issue met with overreaction and then snafu

 

meant to say america, sorry, you got me there.

hey, i don't want to call you a racist, i'm sure you have a black friend, but read what you just wrote. given the facts of what is out there, that's some pretty racist thinking.

still no evidence showing that michael brown committed the crime or a crime, but he's black, he's big so he kinda looks like the dude in the grainy video, can't he's guilty of anything, but are definitely leaning that way. is there a verified source that says he committed to the crime beyond a shadow of a doubt? the chief said in a live feed (unedited by the evil media!) that the police officer who shot brown had no idea of any connection to the crime. the shooter wasn't even looking for the dude who committed the crime. he was shot simply for walking while black at the time. the crime issue wasn't even a factor at the time of the shooting. let's stop talking about it.

oh so the autopsy shows he was most likely charging the car huh? well pretty sure an unarmed black 18 year old black dude couldn't do too much to a police officer inside a locked car. pretty sure that doesn't lead to a shot in the head.

hey, is it possible that he was facing forward with his hands up, got shot in the arm a few times looked down to see he got shot then got shot in the head? oh of course not, he's black he was doing something wrong like charging the policeman. both are equally viable possibilities? why and how did you come to your conclusion?

well it's sure as fuck not happening to rich whitey, so therefor if its not happening to poor white people, or rich white people, its happening to minorities. so since it is happening to minorities only it's fueled by racism, and if it something based in racism we should probably focus on the racism and then see what happens, as opposed to the ass backwards approach of the other way around. symptom vs actual cause sort of thing.

glad to see we're on the same page.

yeah, there is a serious issue enforcing it, but i wonder how many gang bangers would go out on the streets with a few bearcats parked outside. they wouldn't be getting away with shit in broad daylight and have innocent kids getting hit with bullets. better than 7 year old girls on their bikes getting hit.

 

$399 per camera looking through their website found here
personally i think these small cameras are a better investment than arming everyone with apcs and automatic weapons.