Here is where it gets fuzzy. How is this much different than the girl who got an entire facejob because she didn't like how big her ears were? Yes, one is physical and the other is mental, but they're both HUGE changes made to a young person who has the potential to go through an entire host of changes as they mature.
I understand that this is the internet and the urge to fire off an opinion based on fuck all information and your general outrage at everything is significant, but please, for the love of god, go do some reading before you comment on this. Really. It's not like kids go into a doctor because they tried on their mothers heels one time, and come out on hormone blockers. The evidence that needs to be presented to a doctor before they'll prescribe that shit is epic. It's only typically done by specialists or in consultation with specialists and there needs to be both a massive and majorly compelling history and a lot of time with the doctor before they'll go for it. Gender Identity Disorder / Gender Dysphoria are real things that need treatment. There are detailed diagnostic criteria and there are extensive guidelines about treatment of those conditions. Kids don't get to go into a doctor and get treated for those conditions because they want to be - they need to be diagnosed with a hell of a robust process because the potential for the prescribing practitioner to be sued if they fuck it up is astronomical. Every practitioner I've ever heard of is massively cautious about following protocol for these kind of patients. Nobody in the western first world gets their kid through this kind of treatment because they wanted a different kind of doll.
A real disorder according to who? The same guys who write the DSM V? The same people who create disorders and their treatment annually? Pardon me, but I don't put much stock in these people; the best they can do is "treat" illness, they've never "cured" anyone.
Cancer is treated, not cured. Should we dismiss oncology? Psychiatry is hardly an exact science, and in most cases, the cause of a disorder is unknown. It's diagnosed based on expressed symptomotology and then those symptoms are treated (usually with much trial and error) to help the person manage the symptoms and better cope. We still don't know what causes schizophrenia and the more research we do, the more we see just how much we still don't know. But I'd rather be treated with meds to address its symptoms than have one of my lobes excised under the guise of curing it. The DSM is far from perfect, but what it does do is provide a common language for practitioners (as well as diagnostic codes for payor systems). I'm sure there's not a psychiatrist alive who agrees 100% with everything in it. Just look to the process of writing each new addition. Proposed changes to diagnoses, newly recognized disorders etc are all made public and made open for debate ( you yourself can go to the DSM-V website and weigh in-this opens the process to both other non-MD professionals in mental health such as psychologists, therapists, Counselors, etc as well as those with the disorders). The brain is a tremendously complex entity with more processes going on that you could imagine and while our brains all follow the same processes (for the most part) we can experience the same mental illness but with slightly different etiologies. Why do you think there are so many varieties of antidepressants on the market? We may both suffer from depression, but the pill that works for doesn't work for me and vice versa. We both have depression, but the neurochemical imbalances causing it are different, so our pharmacological treatments need to be different. Unfortunately, the appropriate treatment can't be determined by a blood test or MRI, hence the trial and error of finding the right cocktail. If you have a better idea, I'm sure that APA would be interested in hearing it.
What I see in your writing here is that our understanding of the mind is rudimentary comparatively speaking when compared to the rest of the human body. Treatments and processes are varied and subject to frequent change. Yet, with this knowledge, we are willing to give pre-pubescent children hormone therapy that will forever alter the outcome of their lives? I would say this is a more severe outcome then mistakenly giving someone chemotherapy with an incorrect diagnosis of cancer.
"Our" knowledge might be limited, but "your" knowledge on this subject is much, much more limited than that.
If you'll notice, nowhere did I say anything about being "outraged" or anything of the like. I know this may be shocking, but it's possible to both ask a question AND not being masturbating in rage on the internet. I understand these processes are long and time consuming for goood reason, but how in God's name can you ever be sure about something like this when the child in question is pre-pubescent? How can they be ssure that what they want is X or Y? I understand the parents here have to make a deccision if it's something of this magnitude but who's to say the kid doesnt turn 16 and realize that they were just gay and not necessarily transgendered? Look, I know on this site it's usually safe to assume whoever posts a contradictory opinion is an idiot and looking to start a flame war, but I'm just looking for the mindset one would have to have to make these decisions, so feel free to tell me whatever you want while keeing in mind I don't actually have downs syndrome when I post here.
Look, Scootah was out of line when he directed the "outrage" part at you specifically, although it does apply to damn near everyone else in this thread. But it's really difficult to take your post in good faith when he asked you to do some reading on the subject before spouting off opinions...and then you follow that up with an incredibly ignorant question that demonstrates you did absolutely no reading on this issue whatsoever. I can't figure out how to copy-paste on this iPad without it turning into a massive clusterfuck, but just Google "transgender." Click the first link (Wikipedia). Read the VERY FIRST paragraph. Oh, hey--it answers your question! Sexual orientation is something some kids figure out very early on in life. Sometimes, it comes later...like during puberty. Sometimes it takes a large amount of collegiate experimentation with both sexes to figure out exactly where one lies on the Kinsey scale. Hell, some people don't figure it out entirely until they've been on this planet for 50+ years. Sexuality is complicated, nuanced, and subject to change. None of that, however, is relevant to the current discussion. Personal identity, however, is entirely different and completely up for discussion (and before anyone gets sassy and wants to bring up sexual identity as being a PART of personal identity...yes, this is true. But a part != a whole). What you're suggesting, or asking, is that it may be better for parents to hold off on giving their son hormone suppressing medication just in case he changes his mind about his essential gender identity later in life. You know, just in case it turns out that feeling like he is a girl in a boys body is actually just him being confused about wanting to touch a penis. Can you see how belittling that is to queer people and people with identity disorders? For a child to be so sure, and so committed, and so distressed about being trapped in a body that doesn't match who they are...well, that's not your average run-of-the-mill crossdressing third grader. Plenty of grown ass men wear panties and garter belts to have sex with their wives. Hell, plenty of dudes slap on a fuckload of makeup and shave their legs and rock out in drag because that shit is fun...but they still love the ladies. But for a child to know that she/he is in the wrong body? That's much rarer. And much more serious. Certainly more deserving of a nuanced, informed, and compassionate discussion, right? Withholding hormone suppressing medication during puberty puts a severe limit on how successful any future sex changes might be. If your son knows he is actually female and has the proper psychological/medical/behavioral documentation to prove that it is a significant impediment to his life to have him continue to live as a male, then it would be unspeakable cruelty to force him to live life as a male. It would be a travesty to allow your child to undergo male puberty, because when she finally gets the sex change operation she's been dying for...she'll have certain male physical characteristics that will make the transition...difficult. But if you accept that your child is trans and give them the right meds, they can eventually make a successful transition and blend into society in the way that they've always wanted to. Happily, healthily, and in harmony with their body and themselves. As a parent, how can you ever want anything different for your child?
Before everyone starts panicking about "omg HORMONE blockers in KIDS!", bear in mind the same drug is used to treat precocious puberty in children. Which is to say that it delays puberty, rather than irreversibly alters development. The idea to delay puberty to buy time in determining a child's gender, rather than leaving the kid to develop unwanted sexual secondary characteristics. So you can further continue treatment with opposite sex hormones or cease therapy and let puberty continue more or less as normal (nb I am on a smartphone and can't dive into the literature as I normally would right now). This sounds, to me, a rather conservative approach to therapy when used in appropriate candidates. But what the fuck do I know. The same drug is used to treat endometriosis and prostate cancer in adults, by the way.
To respond to Pinkcup, unfortunately I'm on my phone and it sucks and the internet hardly works, but the app for the boards does, which explains why I am asking questions that right now I don't know the answer to. And I'm not belittling anybody. I'm saying that children are prone to making decisions that may not be the best for them, which is why this is up to the parents. I agree, a young child who is so sure about something like this must be extremely rare. I quoted ghetto because this was what I was going to ask- with any drug it takes time to figure out what works best, be it for physical or mental conditions, so how does that affect hormonal treatment for something like uberty? Is there like a certain time range where you can hold it off to and then it's either "it happens now or it never does?"
Gender identity is one thing, but sending your kid to preschool in a dress because he's "inconsolable" is weak, in my humble opinion. If my kid looked at me and said, "Daddy, I want to wear a dress to school." I would calmly reply, "Me too, they look comfortable. But you don't have any, I'm not buying you one any time soon, so put on normal school clothes." That is usually enough to spin it out of the average 8 year old's attention span. If it was a consistent issue, I would explain that girls wear dresses and boys do not in the same way I explain manners: another set of social rules that's generally incomprehensible to an 8 year old. No complex, no shame, no outrage, just: this is for school, where a different set of rules apply, just like work for adults. If the kid was approaching puberty, it would be a different conversation. However, at that age you go to school to learn things like social interaction and to get an education, and wearing a dress to school (especially where I live) would make those two things difficult or impossible for a long time. It's not about gender, because there are tons of other gender-specific behaviors that he will do at school if he's "gender-fluid" (whatever the hot happy fuck that means). It's about dressing your kid for school in a way that is generally accepted and allows him to focus on what he's there to do, not waste time in the principal's office, while Mom emails him about "well, girls can play with Spider-Man and wear jeans, so why can't my son wear a dress?". I don't like how serious and macho people expect male children to be, I think it's ridiculous to think they should be interested in 'boy things'. I also think that the kids themselves wouldn't assign a gender to certain behaviors like wearing a rainbow necklace and glittery shoes. When I think about things that kids like (bright colors, shiny things, cartoons, new sensations) and I think about girl's clothes (bright colors, covered in cartoons, a lot of materials that don't make their way to boy's clothes), I think that they are fucking children and all dress like candy wrappers because it's what appeals to them. We are the ones who say, "No, pink is a girl's color." and act like the kid's having some kind of crisis.
What my writing says is, if you have a better diagnostic methodology for mental disorders and corresponding treatments, let's hear it, Dr. You are an MD?
No, I'm not. Re-read what you wrote: "not an exact science" & "trial and error" stand out as alarming statements, Doctor.
As I have said before, it is a situation I would not want to be in. This is not because I would be ashamed of my son if his sexuality deviated from the norm. (Although I do admit it would probably be a bit difficult to accept at first.) But because from almost every gay man I have ever met it is a rough road to travel. And while I would want to be supportive of my son, I also know that young kids can be jackals. For example, my sixth grade year sucked because I wore snow boots to school every day that year. Not because I thought they were cool or anything, but because that's what my mom could afford. I was teased relentlessly. Eventually I grew a pretty thick skin about it, but it was horrible having to basically wear a badge proclaiming I was different. Hell one of the main reasons I am in school right now is so my kids never have to be the poor kid in school. I know bettering yourself to provide more for your kids is cliche, but it is a huge motivator for me. As I have said, I honestly don't know what I would do in this situation. Many parents wouldn't know until they were confronted with it. But my gut tells me that until my child was older (high school age) I think it would be a no go on dressing "like a girl" in school. When he is older, and can really understand the potential for social backlash his choices can have, then I would be supportive of him making that choice for himself. If he wants to wear that at home that would be fine with me. If he even wanted to wear it to a friends home who's parents I have spoken to I would probably let that happen as well. Although I would be terrified the first few times. Because as I have said, kids can be really mean. And from experience, when you are the big kid in school it can be worse. Simply because most kids know they can't take you physically, so any perceived weakness can often be exploited more viciously. And to preempt any misconceptions. I am not saying that being poor is the same thing as being sexually fluid, or gay. I'm just saying that advertising your differences is often an invitation for cruelty.
No branch of medicine is an exact science and the entire history of medicine is one of trial and error. You've expressed great disdain for the field of psychiatry, but you still haven't offered up your better mousetrap. What do you propose we do to treat mental illness? Ignore it and hope it goes away?
Fuck me, before people start disappearing up their own bung holes: Life is not an exact science. Anyone wanting to spout off medical "facts" is a dumbass and should be forced to put "according to what we think we know about the human body and psyche" at the end of each sentence to reinforce the fact. Put it more in a human rights perspective. I believe everyone should be self-determinative, once they reach the level of maturity to consciously do so. Until that time, their guardian makes the decision for them. That doesn't always correlate with the law, but at least in the civilised world the concept is there. If someone believes whole-heartedly that they are physically the wrong gender, that there was a fuckup at the chromosome factory, and they make that conclusion with sense and conviction then that's that. If they make that conclusion before they are mature enough to understand the concepts and ramifications of the path they go down, then they either wait until they can do so or it falls to their guardian to make the decisions in their place. I haven't done it myself, and I have never had to deal with it as a guardian, but from the little I do know I understand that there is a ton of mental health screening done for this type of thing. Like Scootah said, no one's going to be prescribing hormone therapy until the case has been fully investigated. Everything else aside, no doctor wants a lawsuit in a few years when a gender revised kiddie reaches adulthood and decides that they were wrong all along (at least not without a ton of supporting evidence).