Re: Occupy America I used to work at Hardee's. Every now and then, I'd order a chicken sandwich but add a burger, tons of bacon, and a few extra chicken breasts on top. Minimum wage is not that bad people.
Re: Occupy America Do you really think the only way to contribute to society is to pay taxes? Think about some of those Americans in that 60%. You think none of them add anything to society? I'm not even going to start listing professions because if you can't name at least ten on your own you're insane. Edit: I thought those numbers were bullshit, and once again you're wrong.
Re: Occupy America <a class="postlink" href="http://gawker.com/5850957/will-occupy-wall-street-be-a-set-for-the-new-batman-movie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://gawker.com/5850957/will-occupy-w ... tman-movie</a> Ok, this is getting ridiculous. Kanye, Jessie James, Donald Sutherland, and Bill Maher have all been getting publicity for participating in the protests, as well as several other celebrities. But Batman? REALLY?
Re: Occupy America I used to be a huge proponent of third party movements.........until the aftermath of the recent U.K. elections. The Liberal Democrats formed a coalition with the conservative party and in that time seem to have backed down on or betrayed damn near every campaign promise, pledge, party stance, etc. since the election. Now, I'm not naive enough to think that every politician will 100% stick their guns once elected to office. Obviously some, if not most, promises are impractical or it is practical in some way, but the politician just made it to make their way into office. But the way the Lib Dems have behaved just in the past year, really eroded a lot of confidence for any major party making it's way center stage as a third option.
Re: Occupy America Someone mentioned earlier in this thread about baby boomers being the self entitled ones for demanding their Medi-Care and Social Security. The difference between the baby boomers and the freshly graduated students demanding anything is the boomers have paid into the system for their entire working lives. They worked, paid, and blindly believed the system would take care of them. The boomers are asking for a fair return on their investment. The students are asking for something the previous generation earned. Which is show a sense of self entitlement? That being said, I don't envy y'all just starting out your adult life in the least and I completely agree that something needs to be done to overhaul the whole damn system. Any of you that have been around since the RMMB have watched the downhill tumble my finances have taken in the past 5 or 6 years. I did everything I was supposed to do as I was building my future...I bought property, I started my own buisness, I bought "Safe" stocks like GM. The government take over of GM on a Sunday with no warning fucked me over. It closed at $4 or so on Friday and the gov. took over on Sunday and fired the CEO. It opened at .36 on the following Monday. When you own a few thousand shares that can put a dent in your savings when you paid $20 a share for some of your stock. The last thing GM did before coming out of bankruptcy was to cancel all previous stock and issue new stock for $35 a share for the IPO. The kicker was we weren't allowed to buy it, only certain creditors were. K-Mart did the same thing. I owned 2000 or so shares that disappeared 1 minute till midnight as they came out of bankruptcy. In the past few years their new shares have traded for up to $150 per share after their merger with Sears. Who exactly is making money on all this misery? It sure as shit isn't me, and I can fully understand the frustration the protesters are feeling. I did everything I was taught to do and watched it disappear in a few short years. I just watched my mom lose everything she worked for over 50+ years of working. Something is seriously fucked up.
Re: Occupy America The boomers paid into the system, and now the system is $13 trillion in debt. That's the equivalent of me working for $50k a year, putting $70K on my credit card (what kind of shitty banker is giving me this credit limit? but I digress), and then bitching about "where's my paycheck?!" Ya done spent it old timer. And then some.
Re: Occupy America Let's not turn this into a generational war. The Boomers blaming recent grads for ANYTHING in this country is laughable at best, anyway. Why are recent grads "entitled" anyway? Isn't "entitled" a Fox News buzzword? "Oh, look, them black folk want to vote. They are so hoighty toighty and fuckin' entitled, aren't they?" That's all I hear. Recent grads are not feeling "entitled" because they are begging for minimum wage jobs and feel they are qualified for one and/ or ought to have an opportunity to prove themselves and make a living wage. Add to the fact that a recent grad with an IQ of 150 and a GPA of 3.9 is BEGGING for the very same type of job a Baby Boomer who at his age got wasted for 4 years, is dumber than a box of rocks, and earned an impressively adequate 2.0 at community college, could WALK into about 30 years ago.
Re: Occupy America There were similar employment problems when my dad (he was on the tail end of the baby boomers) graduated college. There was a huge boom in science majors because of the space race and all the scientific research being done. So when he finally graduated from Notre Dame with a degree in physics, most of the jobs had dried up. If he couldn't get a job with the government, his plan was to become a teacher because he did not want to be drafted. He actually had a job with a highschool at a little hick town in Alabama lined up when his government job came through. He ended up working in a lab at Fort Monmouth. All I'm saying is, employment problems have happened before for lots of reasons. People always want a means to reasonably support themselves. I don't think that is fair to call that an "entitlement." The old folks are trying to live their last 10-20 years now without working. This is traditionally a reasonable thing, and I'm sure they feel like, through savings and contributions to retirement, they have earned it. It's true that Congress is fucked up. And it's true that we, the fucked up people, have voted them into office. It's hard to see the long term ramifications of certain policies when the process is so tangled. There may be a tiny number of people who are just evil and know what will happen, and let it, and then there's a small number of people who know that doing x,y,z will cause huge problems down the road, and try to prevent it, but let's face it: most of us are sheep. I try really hard not to be but I know, deep down, that even if I were to spend every waking moment researching and learning about this stuff, I would never know the absolute truth. What is that saying, that if it takes more than 1 or 2 sentences to explain what a company does, then it is shady/corrupt/run away as fast as you can? We need to simplify things.
Re: Occupy America You go from saying "don't make this into a generational war" to spewing this bullshit? Bitch please.
Re: Occupy America The last two or three pages are exactly what the 1% want to see and hear. This is exactly what I was talking about, how we are quickly diverted from the real issues. You know what we sound like? A bunch of curs around the master's table fighting over the master's scraps. Some of the curs are screaming 'but wait, you're fat' or 'you're gay' or 'you don't work as hard as I do' or any number of bullshit issues that really don't affect the common man day to day. In short, people, it's being done with smoke and mirrors. You are being fooled and diverted into believing, in one form or another, that to think you are deserving of the same opportunities to succeed in this country as others means you have an 'entitlement complex.' Well, let me be the first to say, yes, motherfucker, I'm entitled. I'm entitled to the same opportunities as those that came before me. The opportunity to earn a decent living, to live in a relatively safe environment, to want a better life for my children, to want decent health care for me and mine, to breath clean air, to eat decent healthy food. If you feel the foregoing means I'm a whiny bitch, so be it. Maybe we need a little more of it, and better directed. So while some of my fellow curs are content to argue over who gets the best scraps, I have bigger game in mind. You see that roast on the table? The one that you and I had a hand through our work in bringing to the table? Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I'm also looking at the master's table, and the people sitting at that table have knives and no desire to share. So let's not worry about bullshit issues like taxing food, or entitlement programs to people that live in lousy conditions. Let's focus on the big game. The calculus is extremely simple in concept. Good jobs = more ability to pay taxes = means less people that need 'entitlement' programs = less spending on entitlement programs. It's always about jobs. If people have the ability to go out and earn a decent living, by and large, most people will do so. Or have you become so jaded that you immediately want to think the worst of all your fellow curs? Don't forget, that's what you are, that's what I am. And every time you think you're better than your fellow cur, whom is eating the same scraps and sleeping on the same floor as you, you further amuse your masters. Jobs. End of story. For now.
Re: Occupy America I feel like the jobs are out there. It's just that 75% of Americans aren't qualified for them because they didn't feel like learning something hard, working hard, and felt by getting an education of any type it would make them qualified to a job where they can live the American Dream when they graduate. That's the way shit used to work, and I don't think that equation is relevant any more. We're filling up all the international visas for the high paying jobs not because they're invading, but because there aren't enough good old Americans qualified. Engineering, bitches. Want a job? Go learn how to operate a VoIP network because all the companies I know can't find someone to hire for this type of stuff, and there are jobs everywhere.
Re: Occupy America No, youre not. No one is entitled to anything except maybe life, basic education, and people not fucking with your shit. Thats it. What makes you think you deserve more and why is that not up to you? Oh and the people that came before you? You must mean the ones that hard to fight in World Wars, incurable plagues, had zero education, and survived a Great Depression. Quality life gets exponentially better with every generation. Save it. This isnt some great proletariat vs burgeoisie struggle. You want to consider yourself a dog grasping at scraps? Go for it, but you live in a 1st world country, posting freely about your grievances on a high speed internet connection. Im sure life is terrible. Have you, personally, ever been disenfranchised by one of these all-powerful evil millionaires you speak of? Guess what? Some people are smarter, better looking, harder working, and more successful than others. Thats just the way it is. And in that respect, some people are better than others in certain areas. CEOs didnt magically get put in their position via caste system, theyre appointed by a Board of Directors because they can run a fucking company. Some dumbass working in a mailroom? He cant. Is it morally wrong for them to take a big pension when the company sinks? Of course it is, no one argues that. But lets not make a successful group of people the economic boogeymen because we're not happy with how the economy hasnt been getting fixed. I know its much easier for people to blame others for their personal shortcomings, but its getting insane. The government can point the finger and inject as much money into the economy all it wants, but at the end of the day you cant artificially kickstart job creation. Its not the governments responsibility, it needs to sit on the sidelines and pave the road for the players who will.
Re: Occupy America What do you mean by life? Basic education? And people not fucking with your shit? For instance, by life, would you include basic health care? Or do you only deserve life until you don't? How about 'basic education?' Does this mean tying your shoes? Reading and writing? Something more? Perhaps training to be a productive member of the workforce? What about people not fucking with your shit? Does that mean not getting killed? Does it mean people not stealing from me? What exactly does it mean? You toss out some snarky terms, but fail to actually identify what they actually mean? Or are you saying all we are entitled to is the ability to breath, tie our shoes and not get raped? Perhaps that 'basic education' you spoke of earlier has failed you. I said 'the opportunity' - key phrase modifying the stuff following. Yes, these folks are now 80. What about the ones that are 60? You know, free love and running up debts that have come due? Sure you can point to the greatest generation and say 'we're not worthy' but the last time I checked, there are a bunch of Americans fighting in wars right now. And those 'survivors of Depression?' Right, FDR did absolutely nothing in the way of social programs to attempt to get the nation out of that Depression, which was caused by a financial collapse, by the way. Not knowing history can be a real bitch, especially when you repeat it and don't realize we've been here before. Uh, every single time laws are passed, due to pressure from moneyed interests, yes, I'm disenfranchised. I don't care what President you pick in the last 30 years, but all of them, including Obama, have received a shitload (no more than less than half) of their campaign money from Corporations. Now, since we assume that corporations are in the business of making money, are they doing this to be patriotic? Or perhaps, just maybe, because they get a return on that investment? Really? Like Enron, AIG, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, et. al.? No one is suggesting that Jack Black from 'Gulliver's Travels' takes over the business. Not only is it morally wrong, but you don't see anything from a business standpoint that they get paid for running a company into the ground? That's not morality, that's economics. And the economics don't make any sense. Well, they do if you're looking to benefit a very small percentage of the population. You mean, let's not demonize the government officials and CEOS that destroyed the economy, and have been doing so for 30 years? You mean how guys like Hank Paulson (who went on to be Secretary of Treasury after being Chairman of Goldman Sachs) went ahead and made sure AIG (the company used by Goldman to insure against the failure of the stocks Goldman was selling to its clients) was bailed out with our tax money to benefit Goldman? Boogeymen? In this case, they most certainly exist. And by the way, shit isn't just getting insane, it's been insane for a while, we're just now noticing. And who will? You mean the same people that have shipped jobs to other countries (after lobbying the government whose job it isn't to create jobs for reduced tariffs, granting of most favored trade status to countries that use slave labor, etc.)? I'll make you a deal, I'll agree with you that it's not Government's job to create jobs if you'll go ahead and concede that it also isn't government's job to destroy jobs and benefit the people and corporations who donate to their campaigns (and offer them hugely lucrative jobs when they leave government). In short, I'm asking for an even playing field in the land of opportunity. I'm more than willing to work for it, and in fact, I have worked my ass off - as many, many Americans have also worked their asses off, the question now is, to what end? I thought we were entitled to the same opportunities - not the same results - that's what I'm advocating.
Re: Occupy America I have absolutely no problem with someone like Steve Jobs or Warren Buffet using their intellegence, innovation, knowledge, and brilliant ideas profitting handsomely from their abilities. I have no problem with Derek Jeter earning $20 million per year because he has elite athletic ability to do so. I have no problem Gisele Bundchen earning millions because she's pretty. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of not all of the posters on this thread also are fine with this. What I have a motherfucking problem with is investment firms strong-arming ratings agencies into overrating investment vehicles they know are shit just so they can make more money while investors who depend on the integrity of investment ratings get fucked. That fuckers like Bernie Madoff* can defraud people of billions because the SEC and other regulators are too fucking inept or compromised to do their fucking jobs when people come to them and tell them that something's up. Like it's been said before, there are people who should be in motherfucking jail for the role they played in creating the financial mess we're in right now, but they're not. You want to talk about entitlement? Well I personally feel entitled to live in a society where people who break the law are held accountable for their crimes. I guess that's just not reasonable though. *yes, I'm perfectly aware that he's spending the rest of his life in prison where he belongs. But if you think he's the only one who committed massive fraud in order to make a buck then you're hopelessly naive.
Re: Occupy America Also, the collective arrogance of this board is absolutely comical. I love how the general consensus of the this board has always been "follow your passion" and how we like to look down our noses at "corporate slaves" and "cubicle drones" yet at the same time say that people who didn't get a degree in something that's currently in high demand are idiots. So I guess that means that the only 'worthy' people are those who followed their passion and said passion happens to be financially lucrative, and everyone else can get fucked? My my, are we a right bunch of elitists?
Re: Occupy America While I can't get on board with their demands, Wall St. does need occupying. Especially for this shit: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011...mpany-to-taxpayer-backstopped-depositors.html TLDR Summary: BofA just moved their derivatives book - the gambling, risky part of their operations - to their taxpayer-backed shell company. If the gamble pays off, BofA gets large bonuses. If it doesn't, you and I get to pay the losses.
Re: Occupy America So these are my .02 from the "Wisdom from the Young" thread. I think that if society were to collectively try and meet in the middle (through voting) that the recovery process from this Recession would be accelerated. I'm probably too naive in thinking that the pissed off mobs can organize and effect change, but oh well.
Re: Occupy America Now wait a minute. Those are horrible examples. Lloyd Blankein grew up in the Bronx, son of a US Postal Service emmployee. During his teenage years, he sold food and drinks at Yankee Stadium. He attended New York City public schools, where he then became valedictorian and proceeded to do quite well for himself. Ken Lay was the son of a Southern Babptist preacher and sometimes tractor salesman. He spent his teenage years as a paper delivery boy. Brian Moynihan grew up solidly middle class in Ohio, with 8 brothers and sisters. Ken Lewis, Moynihan's predecessor, grew up in a town in Mississippi with a per capita income of $11,851 and graduated from that bastion of privilege, Georgia State University. Hank Greenberg was the son of a Jewish candy store owner who died in Hank's youth. He then went on to serve in the trenches in WWII, and participated in the liberation of Dachau. Exactly what "caste" are these people being chosen from? I won't speak to their results, but each of them obtained his position by busting his ass.