On a semi-related note,NPR did a story this week about Occupy LA being a bunch of self-righteous assholes, getting all uppity about who is allowed to occupy. Especially the one woman claiming that yeah, she's homeless, but she isn't long-term homeless like those no good ruffians. And your occupation attracted shiftless hippies? You don't say! Skateboards, backpacks, and guitars, oh my!
The nature of the Civil Rights movement was very targeted, because there were very specific laws that impacted them. #Occupy isn't as lucky, because they are protesting against a more nebulous system of privilege, money and power - all put into place by a variety of organizations and governmental regulations. If it could be narrowed down to a single talking point, I'm sure it would be. I agree that everything should be viewed with a grain of salt, but I haven't seen *any* videos or citations come out through the mainstream media or from a "citizen-journalist" that supports the police explanation of why their behaviors and abuses have been justified. If there was something that showed them in a good light, I'm pretty sure NewsCorp would be playing it 24-7.
<a class="postlink" href="http://peopleslibrary.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/your-library-in-the-news-4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://peopleslibrary.wordpress.com/201 ... he-news-4/</a> If you have any knowledge of history at all, this is deeply fucking disturbing, even if only symbolically. Don't dismiss the importance of this movement simply because there are a bunch of hippie hangers-on surrounding the core: there are a number of people on this board who I assume do quite well for themselves financially and see this all as fucking nonsense for various reasons, but I'm reasonably certain that none of you are billionaires. You are being placated, and your 50" flat screen is keeping you from seeing what's happening - pay attention or you're likely to wake up one day and find that Bloomberg just bought a senate seat or that Goldman Sachs has become a branch of government. Don't believe it's possible? Would you have believed that Bloomberg could have successfully overturned a term limits law that the people of NY specifically voted to install, without another vote?
Well if the "police" (The Union) had just let the Confederacy be and ignored it, none of those people would have died.
It's hard to press charges if you're in a coma. Or, y'know, dead. And charges pressed against cops tend to either not stick, or if they do, the punishment is not proportionate to the crime. On New Year's Day 2009, a BART cop put a gun to the back of a prone, handcuffed man, and killed him. His defense was that he thought he had pulled his Taser. For shooting a nonresisting, prone, handcuffed man, he had to resign his position, and in total was sentenced to two years, minus (double of) the time already served in jail. He got isolation from other prisoners, and is already out. Would you say that is appropriate, or a case of justice having been served? If you were to make the same mistake (case was ruled involuntary manslaughter), would you expect such a sentence? It's not like the cops are heading out first dressed in street clothes, then going back to upgrade their equipment when people are acting like dicks. Cops are heading to the protests already equipped with riot gear, to prepare for the worst. Riot gear does not promote the image of Officer Friendly. Riot gear does not encourage a police officer and an unequipped protestor to chat peacefully and seek common ground. Putting on riot gear mentally prepares cops for a violent riot, and switches their mental objective from "protect and serve" to "quell the riot". IWSJ and kuehjager: the secession was not opposed with force until the South opened fire on Federal troops on Federal property.
What world do you live in? Large masses of unarmed "lawbreakers" are your average riot cop's wet dream. It's like Christmas morning for these guys when they get to legally beat the shit out of whoever they like without chance of them fighting back. This isn't like there's some mob tearing through town burning buildings and carrying weapons that they have to stop, this is just a freebie to beat on some hippies who are never going to fight back. There's a very wide gap between "the minimum force necessary to complete the job" and "the maximum force I can legally get away with" and it's perfectly clear which side of that gap riot cops usually fall on. They're not making tshirts like this because they view cracking skulls as an unfortunate aspect of the job:
You're right. They made it as a tongue-in-cheek joke (in poor taste) during protests in Denver a few years ago. But obviously it's representative all police officers everywhere who want just want to crack people upside the head for absolutely no reason. I love doom-and-gloom scenarios. It's funny how the cops weren't acting like the Gestapo during the Tea Party or Iraq War protests. Oh look more peaceful protesting, a cop just got cut by glass thrown at him: <a class="postlink" href="http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/Showdown_at_Zuccotti_Park_The_NYPDs_raid_on_Occupy_Wall_Street_NYC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/Showd ... Street_NYC</a>
I'm not as far left as the majority of the protesters, but anyone who's displaying a blind faith in, at least, specifically the NYPD has obviously not been reading the news this year: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Nine Ten Eleven Twelve If anything, the cops should be on the more careful side simply for the sake of their PR after such a stellar year from them. Those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head, and none of those have to do with their reactions to the protests. Weird how people in power can be corrupt, assholes, or just not very great at their jobs. So, do I believe that every single cop in the city is corrupt, an asshole, or bad at their job? No. But, as a whole, I don't trust them. At all. So when I see stories like the pepper spraying or the Brooklyn Bridge arrests, or any beatings and use of force while "protecting" the protests, I'm going to go with the police being dicks, not the protesters. (Although, I don't doubt there have been some protesters who have provoked the cops, I just don't believe that's what has happened in the majority of the cases.) I think in general they have responded to this very shadily, and there have been some scary images for a country where nonviolent protest is supposed to be a protected right. To me, the protesters vs. cops debacles have played out really nicely as a scaled-down version of what the protesters are against as a whole. It's interesting. Edit to edit: nope, I lied.
It a live stream, so it's being constantly updated. It should be around 2:00PM or so. It initially report the cop as being stabbed but was changed to cut with glass when the details came out. The protester with the bloody head got taken down after trying to knock off a cops helmet or something.
From your link: Yeah, they're certainly not looking for any justification to have a little "fun." You act like there is no human propensity to enjoy violent power over others, and like cops aren't a population predisposed to violent and aggressive behavior before they even put on the uniform anyway. Protests like these are batting practice.
Not to disagree but do you have any basis, outside of high profile incidents, that would back up your claim, FBI/Gov statistics? It's a give and take with a very fine line. I think they should be scrutinized heavily as they are here to protect and serve but also given a decent benefit of doubt as it is a very dangerous job where decision making is made under high pressure and dangerous situations. Obviously gross abuses of power shouldn't be tolerated but there is a reason we give people who serve the benefit of the doubt, and it's not just because they are authority figures.
While I agree that cops are probably using excessive force, and almost always do (I know a lot of cops, they love this shit), if you reach for a cop's head, especially during a riot, you deserve to get your ass kicked.
I think the most ironic part of the recent evictions and violence against peaceful protests is that the US government fully supported/condemned this exact same behavior when it was happening in Egypt. They encouraged the protesters there to stay in the square where they were disrupting an entire town, to keep protesting until there was change, and for the militarized police to not physically harm people exercising rights they should have. Once those protests started coming over to our part of the world, all of a sudden there are "health code" violations, calls for the protests to stop, and police breaking up, for the most part, peaceful protests with excessive use of force. I have little tolerance for police officers who come to a protest in riot gear, especially against people who pose a very low physical threat. I understand when there are cars starting to be burned and businesses getting looted that law enforcement need to protect themselves while trying to restore order. I don't understand coming to every large gathering of people dressed for combat.
I think this is the exact reason people come down so hard on law enforcement. Yes it is a high stress job. Yes it is a dangerous job. Yes you have to make split second decisions which have serious repercussions if you are wrong. However, these are the requirements of their job. They get highly specialized training to deal with these situations. Even more so being part of the NYPD. Even with all of the extra training and programs that are designed specifically for these purposes, they are still failing at their jobs. Let's also not be mistaken to forget that being a police officer IS A JOB. Regardless of what that job entails, it's still just a job and their performance should be monitored just like any other job.
Pretty sure the cops themselves don't decide what gear they're wearing for these types of situations, are you expecting them to say "fuck you I quit" whenever they're asked to dress up in riot gear to handle a peaceful crowd? I understand and have seen first hand that cops rolling up in that attire does heighten overall tension, but you never know what's going to happen and saying that cops should wait till the shit hits the fan to protect themselves is a little ridiculous. You don't want them doing costume changes when the cars are starting to burn.
In college some fine young folk decided that the most epic thing they could do on a saturday night as to get their house, the three houses next to them, and the four houses across from them, to host one combined party. Something like 2,000 kids showed up, street was completely blocked, and it was easily the best party of my college career. Obviously shit like this can't last forever, and eventually the cops came to break it up. And by cops I mean LA riot police. They showed up in full gear, stood in a line, and waited. Eventually some dumbass through a beer bottle at them, and they immediately rushed the crowd and started beating the shit out of whoever they could reach. They even tried to force their way into the houses, which the students ended up having to barricade. The editor of the university paper got beat, which led to a pretty funny letter from the editor ranting about a police state that Monday. This is what I mean when I talk about the gap between the "least force necessary" and the "most force allowable."
I'm not saying police brutality never happens, I'm saying it's not a constant. And in the OWS, the police are being heavily provoked. Now that doesn't mean it necessitates a overly violent response, but arresting protesters breaking the law doesn't make them thugs. At UConn's Spring Weekend one year I saw a cop tackle a kid walking with his girlfriend because he thought he apparently pulled a joint out of his pocket. It turned out to be a pen which the kid got stabbed with while being tackled. It's safe to the safe the kid is now in a position to retire early.
No I don't think that should be the case. If that is part of the training and part of how to deal with crowd control, then that system of training is flawed and should be corrected. Just as we were discussing in the spanking thread last week, physical violence shouldn't be the first thing you turn to to get your way.