Dense? Are you people so quick to fawn over a group of 24 assholes that are asking for tens of thousands of others to be unwillingly burdened? There is no magical force in the world that is stopping these assholes from giving the United States Government a GIFT of the extra money they think they should be taxed. That is unless you consider writing the check, writing the address, placing the stamp and licking the envelope a magical force. It isn't fucking rocket science. They write some obscene or not so obscene amount on the check, and mail it in. Voilah! They've assuaged their guilt of success! And all without demanding others do anything! Instead these people are sinking to incredible levels of douchebaggery by thinking they act as the voice of a group and demanding something be done when they are not taking the first step themselves. Wow. That sounds so familiar. I'll have to think about where I've heard of another group of douchebags doing something damn near identical.
When there is nothing stopping them from gifting the extra money they would be paying to the Government, then there is an ulterior motive.
Just to reinforce the above, let's pretend we were forced to donate 5% of our adjusted income to cancer research, then a group came out and said "5? that's bullshit, it should be at least 10!" And then those same people paid a shitload of money to dirty accountants to make sure they really only paid 2%.
I'm seriously wondering if you're trolling, or you're actually this stupid. They want the marginal tax rate to increase. That is what they're saying. That is their stated motive. They believe the class they belong to has a tax burden that is too low. You can argue whether they're right or wrong, but the fact that they can gift money to the treasury has absolutely zero to do with it.
But it does make them hypocrites. Lead by example. Keep raising the tax brackets, that's not the problem. In fact, you raise the tax brackets, it'll only hurt the poor class that can't hire a tax attorney to find loopholes.
Okay, if someone can find me proof that those 24 people who stood up there asking for tax rates to be higher... a) exploit tax loopholes b) do not currently earn enough taxable income to be affected by raising the marginal tax rates c) break laws to avoid paying tax Please, come forward, and show it. Because until then, all of these arguments are bullshit conjecture about what might make them hypocrites in the absence of any actual evidence. The fact that they're not writing gift cheques (as far as you know, at any rate) to the treasury department isn't an indictment.
Well said. Furthermore, I think some of you are completely missing their point. They went to Congress to say that they are 24 millionaires who represent many more who say it's ok to raise their taxes. Every day Congress gets lobbied by groups like the Americans for tax reform saying millionaires will leave America if you tax them and will never support their reelection efforts. These 24 millionaires were saying that isn't true, that many millionaires are willing to pay their fair share. They are trying to show Congress that there is support from the millionaires and they do not need be afraid of raising taxes.
How's this for conjecture- Warren Buffett has stated he pays 15 percent income tax, substantially lower than his employees. It's a combination of tax shelters, credits, and write-offs. No one mentioned illegal activities. Look it up.
He has also publicly advocated the closing of many of those loopholes, shelters, credits and write offs, knowing full well that people will take what you give them, himself included.
It's the long term capital gains tax rate, which is 15% for Buffet's bracket (which comprises the bulk of Buffet's earnings) vs the Federal Income tax, which is 25-28% for the bracket his employees are likely in (which comprise the bulk of their earnings). Plus they are paying payroll tax on their income, while Buffet is not paying payroll tax on his capital gains.
And regardless of whether or not you think they are hypocrites, is their message wrong? Seriously, when it comes to this, who cares if they currently take advantage of the tax law? They're rich people saying they should be taxed more. That is the story.
Ha, ha no. Well, maybe mostly from TiB. But seriously, I haven't followed this deeply, just some of the various reports from a variety of sources. Most of what I have seen focused on the fact that there were a lot of people living in tents, or groups that were "occupying" wall street or where ever. I was assuming, maybe incorrectly, people that could be away from a job for that long must not have had a job. Then, several of the reports I saw included people complaining about student loans or unfair mortgage practices. Both of those are debts. I was honestly curious how they were paying the attorney fees. You start the sentence with "we" and end with a sentence that is just a word of punctuation. Just so you know - and I know you often think, or write, like you are either smarter than anyone with an opposing view, or "righter" than everyone - you don't speak for everyone by starting with "we" or by saying "period."
This thread is a fantastic microcosm of the Occupy movement itself: the ignorant, the arrogant, the pugnacious and the confused all talking at once and no one being clear on what they're actually arguing about.
I'd be interested to hear an objective argument that We, as a society, didn't "let our belief in the free market get wildly out of control," nor "let the people who legislate and govern us get bought and sold." Rather than focusing on the man's trivial use of a one-word sentence, perhaps you'd like to offer a rebuttal?
Ha, yeah, well, as I wrote, you THINK you are smarter or righter. So, you take that however you like. But, to be fair, I am one of the dumbest people I know, so you don't have to work very hard to be smarter than me. Unfortunately for you, even idiots are right sometimes. And, unlike you, I'm willing to concede that just because I have a different opinion than someone else, doesn't always make me right and them wrong, or vice versa. For instance, Rush is my favorite band. Just because I type out the words, "We have become overwhelmed by pop music and influenced by slick dance beats. We have ignored the awesomeness that is Canadian prog rock. Rush is the best band of all time. Period." Starting that with "we" and ending with a cutesy one word punctuation sentence doesn't make it factual. It's still just my opinion. Exclamation point.
I'd be interested to hear an objective argument that We, as a society, didn't "let our belief in the free market get wildly out of control," nor "let the people who legislate and govern us get bought and sold." Well, no, actually I wouldn't like to offer a rebuttal. But, the reason I thought that particular statement was dismissive and condescending, was because I don't agree that the two halves of the statement you quote are inexorably linked. In my opinion, the latter has truth, even though it may be hyperbolicly over simplified, while the former is not. In fact, had the market actually been allowed to remain more free, instead of intruded upon by the legislation and government that has been bought and sold, a belief in such a market would have prevented the mess that the OWS is protesting. And, in fact, the "we" that is represented there, I'm sure includes those who never believed in a free market to begin with, much less a belief that is wildly out of control. But, since all that is just my opinion, in order to offer a rebuttal, I'd have to go all charts and graphs and stats. And, those are usually just made up with selective data anyway.
I don't know about anyone else, but I would have taken you at your word. You didn't have to actually prove it. Look, I'm half in the bag and fucking with you because you're clearly ill-informed and you don't like me, and those are my favorite type of people to fuck with. But in all seriousness - fine, you don't like me. That's cool, get in line and throw shit at me when you see me on the street. If you think I'm wrong - awesome, tell me why, let's talk about it. If you just don't like me - why are you clogging up the conversation with that shit? Send me a nasty letter like everyone else and be done with it.