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Serious Thread: Race Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Parker, Dec 4, 2014.

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  1. Parker

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    Well the point this article makes and actually Nett brought it up super early in this thread with the Jesse Jackson quote (go back and read it). The entire system of social conditioning that is permeated through the system. Hell, I can tell you right now for myself, growing up in a middle class life, going to school with mostly white people...I don't even need to take the test to tell you I'd end up shooting more black people. Because I've been subconsciously conditioned that in the split second, I'd freak out due to everything around me.

    Certain people, some who have posted in this thread, are so upset at the idea that they might be subconsciously racist. "Oh you're saying we're guilty until proven innocent even though I haven't done anything to black people!" How the fuck do you think it makes me feel when I catch myself reacting to the same things? With my own people? You think you're upset that everyone is accusing you of being racist, even though you believe you're not? How about living in a society/culture that has conditioned you to be afraid of other people that look like you? Think about THAT shit for a minute.

    So MAYBE, just maybe if it can happen to a black person to be conditioned against his own people...JUST MAYBE you could be too. Once that is acknowledged, people can become aware of it as a problem. When everyone agrees its a problem, then the problem can be solved.
     
  2. Nettdata

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    #182 Nettdata, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  3. Parker

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    So there is this website. "Racist Getting Fired / Getting Racist Fired"

    Where people who see others post racist shit on the internet band together to find that person's workplace information and inform them of their racism.

    Thoughts?
     
  4. katokoch

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    On one hand it appears they are targeting some real assholes online, but I've felt differently about internet vigilantism after the Boston bombing and guessing games that led to a student committing suicide. I know I linked to that exact shit here, and I feel awful about it.

    Not trying to defend those that they're attacking nor do I think saying those awful words shouldn't come without consequences, but I don't think I can support a blog leading an angry internet mob like that.
     
  5. Juice

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    Mixed feelings on this one. People need to watch what they say and the veil of anonymity has created some truly dispicable people (or at least brought them to the surface).

    On the other hand, like katokoch, I don't like Internet mobs and I don't know if people saying idiotic things is worth ruining their lives over. It's easy to do that when you are across teh tubes and don't have to see destructive result it has on their lives.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    Word. I support attacking racists but I don't support internet impulsiveness, it's well-documented that it leads to mass life ruining as you pointed out. However for those who use their real name/account to outright attack individuals based on their skin pigment.... Fuck 'em. You dug your own hole.
     
  7. xrayvision

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    Ehhhh, I can see that someone who posts things online opens themselves up to criticism because they went and made it public. On the other hand, trying to ruin, either temporarily or permanently someone's life for it seems extreme. Although on the main page, this Lauren Aubuchon girl wrote some insidious shit on twitter. But I think a lot of that is e-toughguy shit. Doesn't make it right, but I don't think she would say it someone's face. The idea here is that we are trying to change minds and policies on racism everywhere, and that's a good thing, but what this says is that people aren't allowed to think and say stuff lest their life be ruined. But what they are saying is wrong, so...
     
  8. Parker

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    I find that link confusing, as I get what they're doing, but I'm not sure those people are really connecting the dots to "I said horrible things and have been punished. I probably shouldn't say horrible things." I think it's really coming out to "Those goddamn (racist stuff) cost me my job. Fuck them, and their (racist stuff) friends." So it's be great getting people out of positions of power, but I'm not sure getting WalMart greeters fired for saying horrible stuff on Twitter really gets us anyway.

    At the same time, I can't lie, when I first heard about it, I was really excited at the idea. I like the idea behind it, but just seems to be super low hanging fruit.
     
  9. VanillaGorilla

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    Yeah, anyone who claims that white folks are the only Americans who are capable of racism is as ignorant as the racists that they despise.
     
  10. katokoch

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    [​IMG]

    Ah, makes perfect sense.
     
  11. Crown Royal

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    I'm guessing those mods have never seeen a Spike Lee interview.
     
  12. Vorticon

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    Well, if we're gonna go down the 'reverse racism' path...

     
    #192 Vorticon, Dec 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  13. JWags

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    It only took 15+ pages of thread for that to be posted, BRAVO!

    Reverse racism is stupid, cause it implies that racism is some white only thing. Almost as stupid as implying that non-white races can't be racist as well.

    "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

    There are assholes of all races who fall into that description.
     
    #193 JWags, Dec 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  14. iczorro

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    Ok, this may be a little... rough. It's a first draft of an argumentative paper I'm doing for my writing class. But, I think it's relevant.

    Spoiled for length.
    Teach Your Children Well
    With race once again becoming a national discussion, it's important to educate the youth of all communities about other people's experiences. In effort to reinforce the universally lauded "golden rule" (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you), we have nearly an ethical imperative to enlighten kids as to the realities of racial bias, white privilege, and how they can affect the discussion and the future.
    Like most white kids, I grew up unaware of racism in daily life. I was raised by tolerant, ethical parents who taught me that color didn't matter, and everyone was the same under their skin, so everyone deserved to be treated fairly. As noted by Jennifer Harvey, an associate professor of religion at Drake University, in her article "For Whites (Like Me): On White Kids)", while the motivation behind this thought was well meaning, it may have caused damage in the long run. (Harvey, '13) While the individual worth of every person is equal (i.e. invaluable), the plain fact is that not everyone is the same. Factors such as race, socioeconomic status, religion, etc. combine to make no two human experiences the same.
    White Privilege is a concept that has been around for some time, but which is only recently being brought into a major spotlight. Many people still don't understand the definition of it, nor it's implications. Rapper/actor/comedian/poet/Emmy-winning writer Childish Gambino a.k.a. Donald Glover equates it to true freedom. "Whiteness is blankness," he says, referencing the fact that when you are visually a part of the majority, the assumptions about you as a person are far more open, or at least benign, than if you are not. "They look at it like a blank slate, like when you come in you can be anything... As a black person, I always have to know what a person is assuming about me." (Bloch, '14)
    It's a concept that white America has had very little or no experience thinking about on a day to day basis. As a white person, one can usually be assured of comfort, acceptance and tolerance wherever one goes, or at least not being antagonized. (McIntosh, '88) People of color do not have that privilege, and white people in general have the mentality of small children when it comes to these experiences. Having not seen institutional racism or daily microaggressions firsthand, they don't understand that it is a fact of life for a large part of the population of our country.
    The recent events in the town of Ferguson prompted some insightful satire from Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show". He pointed out that most of the white "talking heads" on Fox News were complaining not about the fact that an unarmed black teen had been shot and killed by a white police officer, but by how the story was being reported. Some pointed out that perhaps it would be more appropriate to be talking about black on black crime. Said Stewart, "Yeah! Why all the interest in holding police officers to a higher standard... than gangs?" After showing a clip of Fox New's Megan Kelly being outraged over a "Festivus pole" blocking her view of a nativity scene, he then went on to say:
    This isn't about just one man killed in one town. It's about how people of color, no matter their socioeconomic standing, face obstacles with surprising grace... Remember, you were furious that America's 11-month long celebration of Christmas wasn't enough. But now, if you can, imagine that instead of having to suffer the indignity of a Festivus pole blocking something [a baby Jesus display] you could have just set up in your own yard anyway, imagine instead of that, on a pretty consistent basis, you can't get a fucking cab, even though you're a neurosurgeon, because you're black. I guarantee you that every person of color in this country has faced an indignity, from the ridiculous to the grotesque to the sometimes fatal, at some point in their, I'm going to say the last couple of hours, because of their skin color. (Stewart, '14)
    So how do we fight it? How do we ensure that the treatment of all in this country approaches something closer to equality and fairness? Education. Teach high school age kids about how different people are viewed differently, about racial microaggressions, about the perspectives of others. In her widely referenced article "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack", Peggy McIntosh (Associate Director of the Wellesley College Center for Research on Women) describes growing up as a white girl, taught to see racism "only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group". (McIntosh, '88) She puts forth the idea that once you know about something, it becomes much harder to ignore it. I myself have thought more and more in my daily actions about how I am treating others, what casual biases I might be acting out, what behaviors I may need to correct. Once you have seen a problem, once you make an effort to understand the viewpoint of another, it becomes much easier to try to make the world closer to equal through your own efforts.
    In an interview with Joel Butterly and Adam Kundishora, owners of a college admissions counseling firm named InGenius Prep, Dr. Matthew Lynch (Dean of Education, Psychology and Interdisciplinary Studies at Virginia Union University) asked how white privilege is affecting higher education. They replied by noting that "the higher education system is more self conscious now... and has started to develop a mindset that is protective of minority groups." But they also noted that at that point, it might be too little, too late. They pointed out that there is often a very basic difference in how teens build up to the process of getting into college. "Access to higher education does not align 1:1 with merit. Growing up knowing "Do community service", "Start studying for the SAT/ACT early", "Do summer internships", these families are predominantly white." (Lynch, '14) This is why education on the perspectives and experiences of others should be taught to communities of all kinds, not just white kids. It could be helpful to expand the horizons of understanding for all from an earlier age than college, to prepare them for the years to come.
    According to McIntosh, the current school system "Gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly disadvantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture." (McIntosh, 88) That sounds ominous, like we should be teaching little white kids that they are bad people just because they are white, or teaching little black kids that white people are not to be trusted. This is not what I'm suggesting, rather, I'd like to see a program that emphasizes empathy, communication, difference in experience, and optimism in moving towards a more balanced future.
    Butterly and Kundishora point out why some people would inevitably reject such a program, saying that there is, even in the academic community, "a general discomfort to engage with these 'lingering symptoms of inequality' because doing so requires admitting that our system is still somewhat broken." (Lynch, '14) But to co-opt a quote from a man who is nearly universally regarded as a monster, "He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future." With high school education that teaches diversity, understanding, and empathy, the future we can gain will be brighter for humanity as a whole.










    Bloch, David. "Childish Gambino Talks About the Realities of White Privilege." onlyin.us.
    Only In Media LLC, 2014. Web. 11DEC14 <http://www.onlyin.us/2014/09/politics/childish-gambino-talks-realities-white- privilege/>
    Harvey, Jennifer. "For Whites (Like Me): On White Kids." huffingtonpost.com. TheHuffingtonPost.com, Inc, 2014. Web. 11DEC14
    <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-harvey/dear-parents-of-white-children_b_ 3719818.html>
    Lynch, Matthew. "Diverse Conversations: White Privilege in Higher Education." diverseeducation.com. Cox, Matthews, and Associates, 2014. Web. 10DEC14.
    <http://diverseeducation.com/article/66757/>
    McIntosh, Peggy. "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack." amptoons.com. Wellesly College Center for Research on Women, 1988. Web. 9DEC14 <http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html>
    Stewart, Jon. "Jon Stewart on Ferguson, Fox News, White Privilege on return to 'Daily Show'" thewrap.com. The Wrap News Inc. 2014. Web. 9DEC14. <http://www.thewrap.com/jon-stewart-explains-white-privilege-in-first-segment-on- ferguson-and-fox-news-video/>
     
  15. Parker

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    I think what that comic meant to say was "reversed institutionalized racism," as saying racist shit is one thing, but the system white folks got established in America, is another. White people have institutionalized racism down to a science, that is definitely a white thing now and has been since the whole trans-Atlantic slave trade. Now you can call a white person a cracker, that is racism, but its not backed by 250+ (AND COUNTING) years of various forms of oppression.

    Semi-controversial statement alert: Being racist to white people is like trash talking the New York Yankees. Yes you can offend them, but they're really just "We do have all these Championships and have been the leading team since the creation of baseball. Haters gon hate." When you trash talk the Cubs, there are years on years of losing, being shit on, and having your hopes crushed over a century. It's different.

    Re: racists getting fired, like 2-3 weeks ago when I found it, the mods weren't posting anything. They were quiet and just facilitating everything else. I'm guessing it took off and they decided to address everything coming into them. And yeah, I don't think its black people vs. everyone.
     
  16. Juice

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    Parker you really, really need to re-think this statement. Really think about it. In 4 1/2 sentences you've self-destructed all of your arguments you've put forward in this thread.
     
  17. Parker

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    Let me clarify here. I am not by any means saying black people should be racist to white people. I am not justifying that black people should just be saying "Fuck white people, fuck those cracker ass crackers." What I am saying, is that if a black person does say that, there isn't a historical context or weight of them being the force in power. The word cracker does NOT have the weight of nigger. No matter how many times it is said, no matter what other words go around it. One hurts one group way more than the other hurts the other group. Google one word, see what comes up. Google the other...

    Now it's all intolerance and shouldn't exist.

    That comic is making fun of the concept when racist people, bring up that they are being discriminated against in a certain matter. Which I'm sure isn't any oppression, just a leveling of the playing field. He is saying there is no such thing as "reverse racism" at the level they're talking about. Think about the words we use in today's culture. We call white people, white people, and everyone else gets called minorities. They don't even get called "other ethnic groups that make up the rest of the population" and white people don't get called "majorities." I have to get back to this later, I have an event to attend.
     
  18. JWags

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    But they aren't claiming oppression, they are claiming the double standard. If its not cool for white people to make fun of minorities, then it shouldn't be cool for minorities to make fun of white people, years of oppression withstanding. Like I said, I think reverse racism is a stupid term, its all just racism.

    They are called minorities cause they are the minority though... Not sure why you chose that word to make a point on, your examples of alternative phrasings are kind of ridiculous. Where is downanddirty to comment on what white people are called in Korea where they are the minority? Whens the last time you heard someone say "im in the majority", even in a business setting? You don't cause its implied.
     
  19. ODEN

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    Help me here. So belittling one group of people about their race and characteristics is ok or at least not as bad, so long as they did it to you first and/or didn't treat you fair first? Seems legit.
     
  20. Parker

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    Quick phone posts.

    It's not right or okay. It's all fucked up. But saying racism is racism all around is fucked up. Also, not talking about Korea, talking about America. Did Koreans come go to Europe and enslave white people for 250 years? Then dehumanize them, and prevent upward mobility for the next 100 or so? No? Then that's a different conversation. Wait, was Korea interfered with by white Europeans over the course of history? Why yes? That's interesting...

    You can't say 250 years of slavery and 100 fifty years of not so indirect racism doesn't mean anything because people get called words. When I'm talking about racism, I'm talking about Racism(tm). Not talking about calling someone a name or being mean to them. I'm talking about all of that shit in those initial posts and hell even that Cracked article that made it short and sweet for everyone. That is shit black people can't flip back on white people on a country wide scale. Let's keep this in mind as the conversation continues.

    Also, one note I'm typing out on my phone before I'm done for the night, sorry if it isn't clear. The whole "Hey, you can't say that or white people won't help you fix racism, you need to be nice about it" line of thinking is fucked up. It's like if randoms came to your house for a party, fucked it up, and when you called the repairmen it was the randoms that fucked up your house. Then you flipping out and them saying in a condescending tone "Whoa there, we got a little drunk. We didn't mean it, we don't really feel that way...Hey, if you aren't nice to us, or ask us properly, we're not going to repair your house (that we fucked up). It's really a fucked up line of thinking. They should repair the house because they are the ones that messed it up.
     
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