Attitudes like this irritate me because it serves no purpose other than to deepen the rift between races and perpetuate hate.
I think his point is simple and valid. Another context: Can you insult the President? Criticize him? Call him names and say he is an idiot? Sure, and he will take it. If he turns it back on you and starts insulting you? Then shit gets real, everyone loses their mind. The difference is status and power. When white people talk shit about black people, that is the powerful picking on the weak. People justifying their racism by saying "well black people talk bad about whites!" can easily move that logic elsewhere: "Men can hit women! Why is it cool for a woman to hit a man; but men can't hit women? Where is all that feminist empowerment and equality now?" Because unless they're under threat of death, a man hitting a woman is a piece of human garbage picking on someone weaker to make themselves feel superior. There is a difference in status, in history, in power level. Black people are not now, nor have they ever been, in a position of power within the United States. When white people get all racist, it is about superiority and exerting authority, in much the same way as when a man hits a woman. "BUT, black people can fight back!" You say! Sure, they can. A woman can fight back, too. That doesn't make the man right to hit her. He is still physically more powerful. White people are more powerful than black people in this country, and to deny that is to deny a basic fact of life in America. Black people lack the tools to fight back, and that is the point. They don't have the political voice or the social status to really fight back. It would be a doomed, losing effort. Politics, business, money... All these are heavily dominated by white guys, and those are the source of power in America. Finally, when a 5'2 woman hits a 6'5 man, how much damage can it do? Would it hurt? Of course. Maybe even draw some blood. But unless the woman has a weapon, how many people here would be cool with the guy punching the woman right back? I'd hope none. The much bigger man has to control himself and understand the power he wields, and restrain himself. White people in America don't understand their own power as a group. They're like Lenny, and spoiler alert, it doesn't end well when Lenny grabs a woman. So yes, in this coparison, white people are big muscular men with lots of power and influence, while black people are women who are comparitavily smaller, less powerful, and with no chance of effectively fighting back. If the woman hits the man, it isn't right, and she could catch shit, but it isn't nearly as bad as if the man hits the woman.
If black people decided tomorrow as a group to all hate whitey and try their hardest to fuck you guys over in regards to having good schools, credit, home listings, jobs, business loans, etc. chances are a lot of you wouldn't feel the impact one bit. If white people did so to all minorities we'd be pretty fucked.
It amazes how so many out there can't reflect on how stupid racism is because they don't except the truth on where we all come from. The human race came from East Africa. All of us. Somewhere along the line we scared of each other for looking different and eventually we came up with slavery, war crimes and Vanilla Ice. Racism is something that by all logic should be a fiction but it isn't. Social media really showed the world that it is FAR from a fiction, that there are a lot of horribly stupid people out there who do and say a lot of horribly stupid things. And then when you ask these fucktards what makes a race hereditary in commiting the fault that they bitch about, they can't give you an aswer. They go off on some vague, half-assed dodge because they had this bullshit programmed into them so early. Or you can have the ones that are racist because somebody of another race made them bitter. They stole their girlfriend and now EVERYONE from said race reflects him. Retarded beyond belief, and it happens a lot. Hell hath no fury.
Here's a fun thought exercise if you're white -- Imagine if you happened to go into a random bar, and every song played was by a black artist, and all the staff was black, and every other patron was black. You wouldn't be angry or anything (i'm assuming you're not racist), but you'd like, feel it right? You would notice that you were different? Now imagine if it was like that in basically every bar you went into. This is not meant as a defense of any of the viewpoints espoused in this thread (on either side), but rather as a quick glimpse into what it's like to be continually different, in a way that still *matters* in this country. Namaste.
It's more like throwing a beer bottle at a Yankees fan. Yeah, maybe Yankees fans have done more than their share of bottle throwing in their time, and maybe it's statistically more likely that there will be fellow Yankees fans to come to their aid, but you're still throwing a beer bottle at an individual and you're still a piece of shit.
Believe me, a lot of us Honks realize this. I namely do. You also get the pleasure of watching white people dance while drunk. The Zucker Brothers couldn't write a funnier comedy than that. I get the Stranger In An Unholy Land. Because no matter where you go in this world, here be idiot dragons. Booze amplifies idiocy. Even where I live, pretty much every minority friend I have had experienced at least one downright excruciating racial moment. Even I have as a white person, although I was on mushrooms at the time so I laughed my balls off. The point is, you would have to live on a desert island not to have witnessed this in some way. And the fact people deny racism still exists in our western culture is palsy. Ann Coulter said this. This of course came from the lips from a woman I personally saw tell an Arabic student (full fledged Canadian) at Western University to "Go hop back on your camel." So, yeah.
Truth. Enough of this false equivalence bullshit, I refuse to believe some of you believe it. http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-ro ... ation.html Spoiler Speaking of which, I gotta link the man Tim Wise: Spoiler Random note: this racial divide-and-conquer tactic was the exact same one used by European powers in Rwanda, which eventually led to the Rwandan genocide. Race is a social construction, not genetic determinism, and usually it's being socially constructed to fuck somebody who doesn't look like you.
I keep seeing these posts talking about needing to understand the other side's perspective. The reality is you don't. Everyone talks about fairness and equality but at the same time I see all these posts excusing behaviors that aren't right or trying to explain it away as a result of another problem or stating that one group deserves it because of a system they are a part of or something in the past. It's simple: If you want to work on fairness and equality and actually achieve it, that means that everyone must be held to the same standard. No excuses.
Looks like I should be sending some people honorary black cards, I see some understanding going on here. TX just recently brought this up and I've seen it posted in this thread but I discussed other things. There seems to be some concern over "Well if you think/act like that, white people aren't going to agree with you or help you!" I addressed this in my last post, that line of thinking is unfinished, as it should finish "...out of this mess that they put you in and currently actively & passively keep you in!" What is this rift or divide you speak of? The use of rift in my mind means that there are two parties, who are both mad at each other. If that is how you're using it, what do white people have to be mad at black people for? I'm sincerely curious and really hope the answer isn't something that can be easily tied back to the who Racism(tm) issue we're talking about in the first place. Is it simple ODEN? Fairness and equality would be excellent. How can we hold people to the same standard when there are systems in place to make it unfair and unequal? Using the analogy of the foot race, here is what people with the quoted line of thinking are saying, but not realizing they're saying it. "Well if you guys want to win the gold medal in this marathon, you have to run faster than everyone else to get it. Fair and square. Everyone is running the exact same race. If you lose, its on you, no excuses. Doesn't matter if the judges kids are on the other team, they only allotted half the time to train than the other runners, doesn't matter if the other runners got first access to the top of the line running shoes before you could, doesn't matter if your assigned coach has way less experience/financially motivated to coach you, and oh by the way, your finish line is two additional miles more than the other finish line. If you want to get what the others have, you have to do it yourself with no excuses!" Yeah, makes total sense...
Just thinking aloud, would traveling abroad count here? Not the same scenario as living it out every day of course, but I'm sure some of us white folks here have actually experienced what you're talking about as a thought exercise. A (black) friend of mine, who grew up in North Minneapolis (the most economically depressed part of town), reminded me and a buddy of this as we were the only gringos around much of the time while in Brazil. I don't think having some empathy and trying to understand a perspective is mutually exclusive with keeping the same standards and fairness. Minneapolis Public Schools has some of the most racially divided school districts in the nation. This was surprising when I first learned it a couple years ago, having lived up here for a few years now. The Superintendent seeks to close some of the gap by examining how they discipline kids and tl:dr ultimately have less suspensions for non-white kids. Some think it may be unconstitutional. I think arguments on both sides may have some merit but regardless nothing touches how the labor union that keeps ineffective teachers in place at their cozy positions and basically forces the young, inexperienced teachers into the toughest scenarios in rough schools either. Doesn't that sound logical? That perspective comes from having a sister and two close friends that were/are elementary grade teachers at schools in the North Minneapolis areas where kids who aren't on free/reduced lunch are in the minority. The other side of the coin is how family life impacts education, but I'll leave that for the rest of this thread. I get it that coming from a middle class white background has probably put me at a big advantage. I'm not sorry for it because I have the power to change things, just as I have the power to keep the white man establishment in place (right?). I read your articles Parker and reasons for me to recognize my privilege. But I still have a hard time thinking of how I as an individual can help close that big ass gap in the big picture. I vote and with a conscience, I don't try to segregate myself from minorities (non-whites and GLBT folks), and I contribute to charities. I try to be nice to random people. What else? Whose responsibility is finding and creating the next Mandela? Whites? Blacks? Everyone?
I'll address two things here. First, there is the whole segment of "unintentionally racist" white people we've address. They aren't actively hateful or racist, and they aren't even deniers of institutional racism, they just don't have understanding or exposure to it. I know plenty of those people who became that way due to insulated upbringings or whatnot. My dad grew up in decent sized minor city and didn't know a black person on a personal level until he was in college. So even if he was sympathetic and pro-race relations, he wouldn't have understanding of institutional racism. So someone like him sees the black community acting out, and without that understanding, even if they support their cause, they are like "what the fuck, why are you doing this? Its only hurting perception" Similarly with the "racist" jokes. They get that n bombs are vile and offensive but view similar responses to white people as holding the same weight. Secondly, as I've stated before, there is no rift for me. Its just being a discriminatory asshole. Whites shouldn't call black people n-words, or monkeys, or other horrible shit. Mexicans shouldn't call Asians "chinks". Black people shouldn't call mexican's wetbacks or white people "crackas" or some shit. Its all racist behavior, its all fucking intolerant, it doesn't matter the severity of the history involved. That type of attitude will NEVER get anything solved. The whole comedic slant that started this spinoff is saying racism is a construct of oppression and discrimination over hundreds of years. Thats institutional racism. Making fun of other races isn't solely based on that, though institutional racism is a driver in the acceptance of it. Thinking its ok may be a symptom of that, but victims of the former shouldn't have any more reason to participate in the latter.
Sure. And I didn't meant to imply that it didn't happen to white people, but rather that it's a situation which perhaps elucidates (in some small way) what it's like to be different on a regular basis. Or imagine what it's like to get assigned a 3rd class project tracing back your ancestor's country of origin, then having to fake-smile while you explained to the rest of the class that you weren't quite able to.
So now that we're all laid back and sucking each other's tits and stuff, and I've watched this with an objective lens as I can. where is the difference between: A) applicant who shows up with a mullet and a cut-off shirt; and B) applicant who shows up with a cornrow braids and dreads. I just... don't get the difference. In my opinion, they should both be judged the same. You choose to look unprofessional, as dictated by the society you are a citizen in. If I moved to France, I'd learn French.
Dreads like what Whoopi, has that are neat and clean? Is this the military we're talking about or a regular office? What does that have to do with racism?
Don't worry, nobody expected you to. I agree that if all of those slaves wanted to sneak on those big ships to get that free ride, they should at least have the courtesy of making their natural hair conform to the presentability standards that were going to exist centuries later.
I would hire somebody with braids or dreads any day over a man with a Steven Segal ponytail. Fucking uber-creeps. I don't get it. What does hairstyle have to do with anything? Besides, a lot of the time dreads can look great. You would want to look presentable, clean. How is that not possible with a certain hair style?
What the fuck does hair style have to do with anything other than your own personal hangups? Or that you seem to associate specific hairstyles with race? How someone is packaged has nothing to do with what their capabilities are. Whether it's braids, curly moustaches, mohawks, tattoos... whatever. Get over it and look at the person, not their appearance. For instance, despite all of the "neckbeard" bashing that has gone on around here, some of my best employees are "neckbeards". In the "computer world", this is what a God looks like (and like all religions, this is heatedly debated) Spoiler If you filtered job applicants based on their hair style, the Internet would have failed a long time ago. And let's not forget mohawks... Spoiler What is very interesting and telling is your preconceived prejudice against those particular hair styles, and how you have somehow deemed it applicable enough to bring into a discussion about race.