Sober Thread: Our Ever-Declining Health

The next person to bring up paleo wins a toaster.

...which will make an excellent paperweight, since you heat up the dreaded horror known as "Bread" in it.

 

So what do you guys drink? I listened to I think it was Rob Wolf(sp?) on Rogan's podcast and he recommended clear alcohol. But that got me thinking - most clear alcohol is grain based. How does that work then?

 

It's interesting that eating bread and grains is vilified, but consuming alcohol is an educated choice. For those of you following the Paleo diet (I just won a toaster!), did you start the diet eliminating alcohol and then chose to resume drinking? If so, why? Did you start the diet with mindset, "No booze? Fuck that! I'll give up my bagels, pasta and artisan breads but I'm still drinking!"

Seems to me John Barleycorn is alive and well, even in the Paleo camp.

 

http://www.celiac.com/articles/2188...s-and-Vinegar-Are-they-Gluten-Free/Page1.html


I quit drinking at first, then I went back to beer, with bad results. I switched to whiskey and water and haven't had a problem.

 

I'm honestly confused by this statement, nothing is vilified, certain things have been linked to health issues and people feel better without them. For a lot of people the fun side of certain things like alcohol outweighs the negative health consequences, so they keep at it. Some people feel like giving up bread despite the potential health benefits isn't worth it, so they keep eating it, and that's fine too. It just so happens that more people decide to chose to stick with alcohol because there's less downside and more upside to most of us than bread.

I don't know how much clearer I can be on this. None of us have issues with how other people eat, we don't care. What we do care about is that people who want to make positive health choices but seek help the conventional way are going to be fed a bunch of bullshit. That's where our issue lies, the very people who are suppose to help us have no idea what they're doing.

 

I've lived in New England most of my life and have still never tried that, I feel like I've failed as a human being.

 

I meant it as a general statement. Do you think we're the only people having this discussion?

What I'm saying is that for the most part it doesn't matter what you eat (within reason) or how you move, as long as you don't eat that much and you find a way to move often.

 

Stopped it all for quite awhile.

Started drinking beer again probably 4 months in....never really started eating bread again. A large part of the reasoning is that I like beer but I don't really like bread. It just doesn't do anything for me.

 

And what Frank, Shimmered, Winterbike, myself and others are saying is that this mentality, while semmingly logical, is ultimately incorrect. What you do eat DOES matter. Now it may not cause an immediate reaction like a severe allergy to certain foods do, but over time, more and more it's being shown that the foods most people eat on a daily basis are becoming less and less like the actual foods they're trying to resemble and more and more like weird science projects for corporations looking to make as much money as they can off of the poor and uneducated by marketing their products as healthy and nutritious when they're really not; regardless of how much you move to compensate.

 

My interpretation of what Frank et al are saying is that it's kinda like getting hangovers: all else being equal, the guy who drinks less will get fewer hangovers. So if you want to get fewer hangovers, drinking less will always work. But, as a secondary consideration, some drinks are worse for you than others in this regard, so put down the sugary drink, Natty Light, and Boone's Farm if you don't want to feel your forehead splitting in half.

 

Not a bad analogy, but I'd take it a step further and say what we're saying is that some of the stuff everyone tells you will give you a bad hangover (bacon, steak, cream, butter) will barely give you a hangover at all and that what most people use to get less of a hangover (whole wheat bread, brown rice, skim milk) will give you the worst hangover.

 

While I hear where you are coming from and understand the sentiment behind it. You can surely see that this kind of comment can be construed as you saying to everyone else that Paleo is the best way to get healthy and every other method pales in comparison. I think it's awesome that Paleo works for those of you on it. I just disagree that it is the best way for everyone.

 

Some insight on Paleo from someone that isn't fucking religious about it-

I've tried Paleo twice and this was my experience with it-
1. I was pretty young, and fat. I needed to make myself smaller, however between working for 10-12 hours per day and wanting to have a social life, I had no desire to hit the gym. I didn't know what paleo was. But I did know that in general most all of the diets said cardio was bad and green was good. So I ate nothing but meat and greens. I didn't eat organic stuff. I ate a shit ton of tuna and eggs (because I was poor at the time), and the cheapest cuts of beef known to man.

I learned that carbs really are addictive. For the first week I was so hungry I wanted to kill someone. No matter what I ate. Very similar to quitting smoking. There was a void that nothing could fill. And I lost a shit ton of weight. In a month I lost about 30 pounds. And it wasn't that tough after the first week.

The negatives- My social life suffered. Friends would have me over for dinner. I had to bring my own food 90% of the time. I didn't go out to dinner with my friends because I couldn't eat anything. On top of all this my girlfriend wasn't on board so our relationship suffered.

When I quit- I went on vacation for a week and was unable to control my food or drink during it. I had trouble getting back into it when I came back. Then I tried everyhting in moderation which just went to complete shit. I was fat again.

2. I was fat again and wanted to get healthier. Once again dealing with the stresses of life I didn't have time to work out. This time I knew it wass paleo and started with the the paleo thread here.

I went through carb withdraws again. It sucked. Once again I lost a shit ton of weight.

It ended because I was stressing over food. Is all I could think about was where my next meal was going to come from. And how I couldn't eat anything I didn't prepare. My work life siffered because I couldn't go out to eat with people at work. So I was left out on lunches, and on team dinners, etc. This effected my raiting at work. I ended up stopping because I was working 12-16 hour days preparing for a code release and I just didn't have the time to fix my own food.

It did make me feel great once I got through carb withdrawl. I never really liked sweets so that wasnt hard. And it made me lose weight and it made me have more energy. Seriously it works. if you are unable to control yourself (similar to an alcoholic around alcohol) it is the only way to go. Cold Turkey. You will see results.

I'll try it again some day. You do get to eat a bunch of good food. It just requires so much preparing. It's not for people with anything resembling a busy life.

Something funny- the first time I ate McDonalds both times (there was nothing I could do, it was either skip meal or eat fast food) it made me very ill. My stomach was upset for a few hours, my farts smelled like an outhouse, and my shit was the consistancy of hersheys syrup.

 

Actually - what I've said is that non-food ingredients shouldn't be presented as food.
I've also said that I just don't like most breads/grains. And they're not nutritious. So if I'm goin to eat (which I have to do) i'd rather eat something that's going to make the intake worthwhile.


Finally - if YOU want to eat bread/grains whatever - that's fine with me. But if you want to eat hamburger helper, twinkies, processed and added sugar, or any kind of manufactured foods, I'll probably make a face at you because those things are going to have a very negative interaction with your brain and hormones and they're going to invite a slew of health problems.


Oh. And please stop acting like the (at the very penultimate most) six pack I have a week is worse than the daily consumption of energy drinks, processed food, added sugar, and pseudo foods most people have.

 

I'm trying to catch up to this at work, so I know this has probably been addressed, but I wanted to throw in a two cents here (even though it is only partially relevant).

I have a lack of respect for anyone is aware of anything and chooses to ignore it. Yes, there are many different opinions on what to eat and how much to eat, but everyone knows the basic guidelines for being healthy involve exercise and the proper diet. Most children know that, yet adults choose to ignore it everyday and I think that is a sign of a weak minded person. If you are 50 lbs over weight and just can't stick to you diet, you lack basic discipline. In that regard, yes, I refuse to respect some people.

I will add the disclaimer that some people do have medical conditions, but being ignorant and/or lazy is not a medical condition.

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

On a side note some of you guys are jackasses. Instead of calories in - calories out = weight loss or gain, put it the way it should be. Calories in - calories out (which is a function of the calories in) = weigt gain or weight loss. If Freecorps (since I know from the exercise thread work out a lot just using him as an example) were to change his diet to purely Oreos, it would effect his calories output even if he were to work out the same amount (timewise) as he does now. I am sure he would not be able to squat nearly as much if he did that as opposed to his diet now. And as I read what I wrote I realize how obvious and stupid it is to have to write but people were arguing over it before which is even dumber.

I think onve of the biggest things that needs to be done is get rid of the focus on weight as the end all be all of health.
Besides that what went on here is why this shit never gets straightened out. There were like eight people arguing back and forth about semmantics. Trying to get people from point A to point E without stopping at b, c and d won't work. What I mean is that if the obese person next door asks you for advice on gettint healthier don't tell him to go paleo and start lifting daily. Tell him to stop eating mcdonalds six times a day and having the most activity he getts being finding the tv remote. If that means some oatmeal for breakfast its a step in the right direction and should be seen as such.

 

You're right, it doesn't. It should've said ultimate, which even then is an awkward sentence.
I should not post from my phone, pretty much ever. *sigh*



I'm all for steps in the right direction. I've argued that with other coaches for awhile. They're cold turkey all go no quit trainers, telling people "Paleo or go home".
I'm not, though they think I should be.

Doing SOMETHING to improve where you're at is a damn sight better than standing in one place wondering why things don't change.

 

When people quote and highlight certain words, it looks like you're trying to uncover hidden meanings...

I feel like I'm through the looking glass here...