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The Association 2012

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by Parker, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. Parker

    Parker
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    I didn't watch the game except for the last 2 minutes and overtime. What the fuck happened? The guy played 16 games, and totals 3-4 fouls, then this one game he fouls out? Joey Crawford is officiating? Wow. I'm not one to sit here and even conspire that the "Hand of Stern" was involved, but come on, that is crazy. Happy they lost though. LBJ should have done what Wade did at the end of the 4th. Got his own shot no matter what.
     
  2. Gator

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    The last 3 fouls on Lebron were a joke: the charge Pierce took in the lane, the double foul when KG dragged him to the ground and the last one where Pietrus hooked him and dragged him down. I think 4 of the 6 were offensive fouls. It was bad on both sides. Lots of calls that should have been made and more that shouldnt.

    Like I said, ive never seen more reversed out of bounds calls in 1 game. It got ridiculous.

    And LBJ should have shot at the end of regulation. I have no problem if he drives the ball and dishes to an open man, but who the fuck was that last pass to?
     
  3. Parker

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    Pretty sure it was a mental manifestation of his cowardice, hoping that they could take the shot.
     
  4. Gator

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    I dont think its cowardice, per se, but I do think its a lack of killer instinct.

    I think Lebron's natural reaction, unlike Kobe or Jordan, is to pass the ball when he sees a double team, not try to get out of it or shoot over it. If he raises up off the dribble, there is nobody on Boston outside of Garnett that can affect his shot.

    The Heat need to start Pittman the next game in Boston so he can introduce Rondo to his elbow.
     
  5. Nom Chompsky

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    I think the number one reason I root for Lebron is that I think the "he lacks a killer instinct" narrative is so stupid.

    A true "wants to win at all costs" person passes the ball to the person who they think has the best shot.at making that happen. Lebron has definitely failed in the clutch (and succeeded, sometimes), but he should be applauded for his willingness to pass at the end of games, not castigated.

    The reason why league-wide clutch numbers are so terrible is that it's really hard to manage the clock and get off a great shot at the same time. Teams generally prejudice getting the last shot off over getting a great look at the basket, so it's not like Lebron can just take the first decent shot the defense gives him. There isn't a single player in the NBA who converts fall away jumpers with any sort of impressive regularity (relative to other shots), so Lebron being willing to pass that shot up is smart, good basketball.

    That being said, it was a terrible pass and he would have been better off just shooting. I just get annoyed when people act like the only way that a star can have a "killer instinct" is if they dribble out the clock then pull up for off-balance jumpers while their teammates stand around and watch.
     
  6. Gator

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    I agree 100%. But you are confusing killer instinct with taking the last shot in a game. From watching Lebron for the last 2 years, he gets much more enjoyment out of a great pass than a great shot, ala Magic Johnson. But Magic also knew when to back his man down and put a dagger in their heart at the end of games.

    When was the last time you saw Lebron hard foul somebody? Or get in somebody's face after they foul him? He plays too "nice" in the Playoffs.

    They joked about it on the telecast when he and Rondo were going after a loose ball and he helped Rondo up. (Horrible foul call on Rondo by the refs. No call was needed there.) They joked that Riley or Van Gundy would have fined a player for helping an opponent up. Personally, I like Lebron's attitude, but I think his kindness is often mistaken for weakness.

    Down here this morning, people were all over Wade for that last shot. I liked it. They said he should have taken it sooner. Or driven closer to the basket. I disagree. You cannot go into another OT without Lebron on the road. And he could have taken the shot sooner, but it would not have been as open as it was.
     
  7. MoreCowbell

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    From what I recall, he picked up some offensive ones when trying to post up smaller players, and defensive ones when attempting to guard a posting Garnett.

    I disagree with Gator on at least one of them, the foul w/ Pietrus. Yes, Pietrus dragged Lebron to the ground....after LeBron bowled him over. As neither had the ball, they have equal right to the floor space, and LBJ tried just powering through it.

    He didn't have the shot. He was literally triple-teamed on the play. Haslem was open.

    Dude can't win with fans.

    Who led the first round of the playoffs in 4Q scoring? LBJ. Who led it in 4Q scoring in Round 2? LBJ. Who sent that game into OT with a three pointer? LBJ. But because he doesn't muscle through a triple team, he's a giant pussy or "not clutch."
     
  8. Parker

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    No rational acceptance of LBJ will be had with this poster. He could have called for a screen and pulled up for a shot. There was time for him to make a play. Dwyane Wade did it at the end of OT.
     
  9. Gator

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    Haslem wasnt open. If he was, he would have gotten off a better shot. If somebody is going to hoist up an off balance jumper with 2 seconds left, Id prefer it to be Lebron.

    I was hoping at the end of the OT, they would set up a shot for James Jones for 3. Spoelstra is either the worst last shot game planner or his plans get shit on when Wade or LBJ gets the ball. The #1 issue, killer instinct or pass aside, is they don't get good looks most of the time.

    That is why I was OK with Wade's last shot. He faked and Daniels floated by. It's about as open a shot as you can get with less than 5 seconds left. I was afraid they would get fouled and mess up the FT.
     
  10. MoreCowbell

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    On the last shot: Wade did pass up an opportunity to drive left. That might have been higher percentage, but I'm not sure given that KG et al could have helped.

    But he also gave a great fake, and had an open look. That shot was fine.




    O rly?



    The closest defender is what, seven feet away from him? And that screen cap is after LBJ has already passed the ball.
     

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  11. Gator

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    Or the media. I think he gets picked on because he's a nice guy. Id prefer his attitude over the "gotta be the hero and chuck up a shot" mentality.

    You don't see people talking shit about Artest like they do LBJ because they know Ron will pop out the bushes at your house with a sock full of nickels and beat you like you owed him money.
     
  12. Gator

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    But look what happens as soon as he gets the ball? Garnett is already on him and Haslem cannot get a good shot off. Haslem's shot was an off balance fade away over Garnett.

    Sometimes, youre open because the other team wants you to look open.
     
  13. Parker

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    Yep, hence why the play looked retarded, Garnett was waiting for that, already rotated before the ball got to Haslem and altered the shot.
     
  14. MoreCowbell

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    Right, but that's on him. Haslem took a ugly shot. It was a tough look, and he somehow managed to make it even tougher.

    Haslem has been a guy who has reliably hit it from 12 feet, he was open, LBJ is triple teamed. If LeBron took that and missed, it'd be "He missed the clearly open man for an absurd and impossible look!"

    The shot people wanted LBJ to take there? There's probably no player in the history of the sport who makes that shot more 10% of the time. Hell, he'd probably get blocked more often than not with a triple team.

    It was a very well-defended play, and Haslem was the least-terrible option.
     
  15. Parker

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    That's the thing though, I will strongly assert that he wouldn't be criticized for taking that shot and missing. Wade isn't getting lambasted even though he could have made a different play. Everyone is saying "Yeah, he should have drove and tried a better option." But everyone is on board just because he took the shot.
     
  16. MoreCowbell

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    Maybe you're right. I think any excuse would be found to criticize him. But obviously he shouldn't make bad percentage plays for the sake of narrative, and may I point out again, why is no one talking about the three that he drilled with 37 seconds to tie the game? Why does that somehow not count as taking/hitting the big shot in the clutch?

    Oh, right, because then we couldn't criticize him as much.
     
  17. Nom Chompsky

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    I am far from certain that everybody being on board with a theory is a very good thing. People aren't very good at being rational about sports.

    Somehow, though, this makes me hate the Spurs more, because I feel like they would have somehow gotten a wide open 12 footer.
     
  18. Nom Chompsky

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    I will say that I have grown to really like Rondo's game. He throws some of the prettiest passes you'll see, crashes the boards hard, and clearly shares my hatred for the Celtics.
     
  19. Parker

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    Clutch shots are usually in the last 30 seconds and either put the game away, tie or go-ahead. Boston fucked up on possessions where it became their fault, not LeBron's execution/clutchness.

    Well its not on board with a theory, but its more of an understanding with what is an okay risk and what isn't. LeBron James and/or Dwyane Wade taking that shot is way more entertaining then them not. And guess what? The NBA is entertainment! This isn't the Olympics here. When it comes down to it, is that LeBron James will not do the most entertaining move. Its like if Christian Bale didn't take the biggest scene in Batman.

    Eric Spoelstra should have drawn up a better play or LBJ could have called some floor general shit.

    Rational about Sports? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? There is no rationale in sports, that is what makes it great. You live in New York, have you been to a Knicks game when its close and they are winning. Are people quietly and intently watching the game, taking notes and thinking rationally, clapping when the other team makes a sound basketball play? No. They're shouting, some might be wearing face paint, everyone is wearing similar colors, people have signs that have silly puns. Its not rational, its sports.

    tldr: Fuk LBJ. Seriously, we sell these shirts in Chicago.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. KIMaster

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    Yeah, I agree with Nom, Gator, and MoreCowbell; LeBron James played a hell of a game. It's hilarious that so many mindless idiot fans and members of the media are actually criticizing him for not being a ballhog who hurts his team. Or that they ignore his consistently outstanding play in fourth quarters this year because it doesn't fit into a narrative. Oh well.