Adult Content Warning

This community may contain adult content that is not suitable for minors. By closing this dialog box or continuing to navigate this site, you certify that you are 18 years of age and consent to view adult content.

The Association 2012

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by Parker, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. MoreCowbell

    MoreCowbell
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    14
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,185
    For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that is not a foul? Frankly, Fisher just got out-gamed on that play.

    This is an interesting read on officiating in the series.
     
  2. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
    Expand Collapse
    Honorary TiBette

    Reputation:
    68
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    4,706
    Location:
    we out
    Re: the Durant no-call

    If you have to dissect a play, it's probably ok they didn't call a foul. Especially in a late game scenario, I'm fine with the refs letting the players decide the game, and I bet that if people didn't have an anti-Heat bias, they'd be ok with it too.

    Also, this article in general strikes me as...not enough. None of these numbers exist in a vacuum -- from late game strategy, to Lebron being more aggressive, to pure variance, to a deliberate focus on foul prevention: there are a lot of other factors to be considered that weren't.

    Now, I'm not saying the team whose two stars are both marketable veterans might not get a preponderance of calls. I'm just saying that you could probably find many 5 game stretches where Durant was above his season foul average.

    Also, I feel like it bears mentioning that one of Jordan's most iconic moments is more blatantly a foul that anything Lebron has done in this series.
     
  3. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    I hate to generalize, but the defense in the East is overall better than it is in the West, so Durant having to work harder for shots is reflected in the sill reach fouls he commits when he starts to get beat by James or Wade or Chalmers even. He is used to playing defense (and even getting rebounds) with his length and not with his position or his feet. When you get tired your first instinct is to reach and grab rather than slide and move.

    There is also a mindset of "oh well...Ill just score more on the other end" if you get beat on the defensive side. OKC is young and the Finals is an experienced man's game.
     
  4. MoreCowbell

    MoreCowbell
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    14
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,185
    Right, there was a reason I chose the word interesting and not something like "damning." It's good legwork, but doesn't prove much of anything.

    For what it's worth, he has only committed more than 15 fouls in a four game stretch once in his entire career (12/18/09-12/23/09).

    This is true, although I suspect it has less to do with pervasive attitude than just random distribution of teams. I don't think "conference attitudes" exist in any meaningful sense.

    According to points per game, 8 of the 10 best defensive teams are in the East (7 of whom were playoff teams. The Knicks come in at 11). 7 of the West playoff teams rank 12th or lower (going all the way down to Denver at 29). In points per 100 possessions, you see the same pattern: the East playoff teams are bunched at the top.

    While the teams they've played have all be ok defensive, the Heat are the first great defensive team that the Thunder have faced (Dallas is good but not great, LAL and SAS are slightly above average).

    Whether one can draw any meaningful inference from this to either more offensive fouls on Durant or more fatigue-caused defensive fouls is almost impossible to say. It's just too small of a sample with too much noise to draw clear inferences.
     
  5. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    I think smart organizations build based on the bulk of their competition. No matter what sport.

    If youre in a division in the NFL that throws a lot, youd better have good DBs and be able to throw yourself.

    If youre in the AL, youd better have power and in the NL youd better be able to pitch and have some speed.

    And it always goes back to the old saying, your defense never has a bad shooting night. Or as it will be referred to from this point forward as a "Harden".

    i.e. "Did you see Kobe shoot 8 for 32 from the field last night? He went straight Harden."
     
  6. KIMaster

    KIMaster
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,870
    The evidence of one's eyes is enough to tell you that there is a small but pervasive officiating bias towards the Heat, and when two teams are so closely matched...that's enough.

    Tell me the 3rd foul on Harden near the end of the 3rd quarter wasn't one of the dumbest calls you have seen during the entire play-offs? It was so awful even the announcers called it out. And it happened right in front of one of the refs. That same game, Westbrook took 3 free throws despite scoring 43 points and getting HAMMERED all night long.
     
  7. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Thats the foul I was talking about. Harden started bumping James at midcourt. The foul call was a culmination of all the stuff they let go.

    And they coulda called more fouls on WB drives, but he wasnt getting hammered. Nobody was getting hammered like they should be!

    I think its gonna get chippy tonight.
     
  8. JWags

    JWags
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    153
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Location:
    Chicago
    EDIT: Are you fucking kidding me? Thats just apologist shit. Durant gets bodied all over the court and not by guys he outweighs by 50 pounds.
     
  9. Parker

    Parker
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    90
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,831
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    No actually, the gif is too small, but Fisher just gave him this hilarious "This bitch..." side-eye which is funny because "out-gamed" is correct, but there was some floppage there. And the "This bitch..." glance is due to said floppage. "No way my small self made you fall like that."

    Also two pieces of writing which will make you starter about basketball. Robert Mays will have an occasional article looking at something analysts won't talk about, but something coaches are thinking about, like the metric of Pace and how it is with OKC..

    Sebastian Pruiti breaks down plays in way that's understandable and explains sets for the lay person. Reading it step by step in text is much easier than watching it on the telestrator actually.
     
  10. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
    Expand Collapse
    Honorary TiBette

    Reputation:
    68
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    4,706
    Location:
    we out
    Which is why Lebron actually doesn't get a lot of calls that he otherwise might. Because he's so large and so fast, he doesn't get obviously diverted when he's fouled, so it's harder to notice. Sometimes in that situation you have to sell a foul a little bit, which I think is different than flopping -- sort of like when you take a charge you're supposed to go down.
     
  11. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    I think that is exactly what happened.

    James was setting up to flop and Fisher hit him so hard, it shocked them both. Fisher expected more resistance and LBJ was ready to go down on contact.

    Sort of like missing that last step...
     
  12. Parker

    Parker
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    90
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,831
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    ...What the fuck? Are the Bulls, Lakers and Celtics the only teams that know how to introduce their teams? A fucked up cut of Nigga's in Paris? Seriously?

    Now - A
    Now - B

    And then
     
    #812 Parker, Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  13. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Lebron has serious mean face tonight.
     
  14. MoreCowbell

    MoreCowbell
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    14
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,185
    Well there goes Harden's ability to complain about fouls.
     
  15. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Refs are going to ruin this game.

    Nobody paid to see them blow their whistles!
     
  16. MoreCowbell

    MoreCowbell
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    14
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,185
    Mike Miller? Mike Miller.
     
  17. trojanstf

    trojanstf
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    20
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    413
    Juwan Howard has to be setting some kind of record for most TV time/time spent on the court for a guy who has played zero minutes. I see him almost as much as I see Nick Collison.
     
  18. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
    Expand Collapse
    Honorary TiBette

    Reputation:
    68
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    4,706
    Location:
    we out
    Anybody who's ever dealt with clients or bosses has to love what Mike Miller is doing right now. He's set expectations so low that when he does his job reasonably well it's like a parade. Don't get me wrong, 4-4 is great, but he is basically paid to be a spot-up shooter.
     
  19. Gator

    Gator
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Refs are horrible.

    How do you not call a foul on Westbrook ramming into James?

    And that was not a flagrant on Fisher. That was a playoff foul.

    No control.
     
  20. RCGT

    RCGT
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,769
    Location:
    wandern
    Flagrant foul? Not that it matters at this point, but hahaha oh man.