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The Association 2012

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by Parker, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. Trakiel

    Trakiel
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    Call me Caitlyn. Got any cake?

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    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8113368/report-minnesota-timberwolves-made-run-want-pau-gasol

    Ugh. I really don't like the idea of trading 21 year olds who show promise for 32 year olds with 39,000 minutes on their legs. On the other hand, Williams plays the same position as Kevin Love and I don't know if trying to convert him to a small forward would work. Wolves need a SG much more than they need a center though, so I'm going to be pissed if they make this trade.
     
  2. KIMaster

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    In principle, I agree with you. However, I think Derrick Williams was a horrible draft choice by the Timberwolves and won't ever become a major star. (I think he can be a decent starter, but no more) Thus, it makes sense to trade him for a veteran who is slightly past his prime, but still an outstanding player. Especially when the rest of your team is so young.
     
  3. MoreCowbell

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    I'm not sure what Minnesota's game is here. Do they actually think this makes them a contender, and do they not see the flaws of having Love and Gasol out there simultaneously? Neither guy is a legitimate center, and Gasol will be gone by the time the Wolves are making any serious noise. And if they don't pull this trade together, Williams strikes me as the pouting type.

    How crazy is it that a few people seriously thought he was a better pick than Irving last year?
     
  4. Rob4Broncos

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    I don't pay too much attention to the draft (especially in the last couple of years), but wasn't there a red flag on Irving because he had only 11 games of experience, due to a foot injury?

    Hindsight's easy to fall back on and all that, but I remember Irving being considered a high-risk, high-reward pick at the time.
     
  5. MoreCowbell

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    It was considered but I don't think anyone was seriously worried about Irving's foot. Perhaps I'm wrong but I remember the discussion being that Irving was safe whereas Williams was risky because no one knew how to project his game to the next level.
     
  6. KIMaster

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    I can see both Gasol and Love taking turns guarding the opposing team's center, especially when Milicic is on the bench. And you underrate the Wolves. They were one of the hottest teams in the league and going to make the playoffs before Rubio went down.

    This move also makes sense considering they had a bunch of young players who didn't give a shit last year, and essentially stopped trying after Rubio's injury. That's one reason to ship out some of the lazy, unmotivated guys and get a serious, hard-working veteran in return.
     
  7. MoreCowbell

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    Sure, they could, but neither of them would be able to do it well. Love is a bit undersized trying to defend the 5, and Gasol's defense is softer than a roll of Charmin.

    I think you misunderstand my complaint. I like a lot of what the Wolves are doing. I think they could very easily sneak into the backend of the playoffs and that Gasol would improve the odds of this. I just don't think that is a worthwhile goal. I think you have to aim higher and try to create a serious championship contender, and I'm not sure whether Gasol helps in that pursuit.

    Maybe he improves morale and aids Rubio's development, but is that worth shipping out a still promising young player? If it were Beasley, I'd support the trade, but it seems really fast to give up on Williams. He JUST turn 21.
     
  8. KIMaster

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    That's a very complicated question. Is the main goal to win a championship or be a consistently winning team that pleases its fans and makes money? The two lead to very different decisions in some cases, including this one.

    It might indeed have been a poor trade proposal. It completely depends on how good of a job they have done evaluating Derrick Williams. However, it's a reasonable, understandable offer.

    I wouldn't put it anywhere close to the category of confusing, inexplicable moves David Kahn has made during his tenure.
     
  9. dieformetal

    dieformetal
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    Hurricanes Are My Bitch

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    Wow, just wow.

    <a class="postlink" href="http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/01/report-dwight-howard-wants-trade-to-nets-again-oh-and-the-thinks-the-magic-blackmailed-him/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... ailed-him/</a>

    He's actually starting to make The Decision look good...
     
  10. KIMaster

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    The part about asking the NBPA about making a formal legal complaint against the Magic for blackmailing him almost seems like a joke. I don't think a sports comedy writer like Simmons could even come up with that as a joke.
     
  11. MoreCowbell

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    Agreed, I am amused and eagerly awaited an explanation of what in the fucking fuck he is talking about.
     
  12. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    Honorary TiBette

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    I don't...get Dwight Howard. It's not like his actions are pure asshole, they just don't make any sense. Either he's getting a bunch of different voices in his head from different camps, or he's just randomly flipping coins to make decisions, or he is vacillating rapidly between "I WANT TO BE A BRANDBRAND DO WHAT I WANNA" and "NOOOO I'M A NICE GUY REALLY"
     
  13. KIMaster

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    What's not to get? Dwight Howard has the character of an entitled little child. Once you realize that, all his actions, including the petulant flip flopping make perfect sense. The mistake people make when interpreting the actions of professional athletes is that they're these complex, intelligent entities. They're not!

    With rare exceptions, they're deeply selfish, complete idiots with no education. As much as I love their game on the court, this is true of guys like Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, and Dwyane Wade, too.

    However, all three of those guys all have a fairly high levels of maturity, while Howard is an absolute child.
     
  14. Nom Chompsky

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    To be fair, I don't understand children either.
     
  15. Clutch

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    Don't forget that they also tend to surround themselves with dozens of other people who are also selfish idiots with no education, without the basketball talent.
     
  16. FreeCorps

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    #1 Internet Boo

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  17. KIMaster

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    (I'll admit my biases beforehand by stating that I am a huge fan of Roy Hibbert and one of my friends played on the same high school varsity team, Georgetown Prep, as him)

    While Paul Allen is overpaying slightly, is that really such a terrible contract? It's only for 4 years, and will cover Hibbert's absolute basketball prime, from the age of 25 to 29.

    You're getting an exceptionally hard worker with a great, tough attitude that has improved every single year since he was a junior in high school, and is a borderline All-Star center already. Even assuming he doesn't improve and maintains that same 13 ppg, 9 rpg, 2 bpg, 2 apg on 50% FG, that still qualifies Hibbert as a top 5 center. Is paying $58 million for the best 4 years of his career too much?

    I think a market price like $40-$45 million would be more fair, but if you're a billionaire like Paul Allen, you can afford to overpay a bit for great talent.
     
  18. MoreCowbell

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    You know who is really confused by this offer? Meyers Leonard.

    I agree with KIMaster's assessment, although I share his bias for Hibbert. I'm not sure whether it's an egregious overpayment, especially considering that the Blazers essentially only have Aldridge, Matthews, and rookies under contract beyond this season.

    I'm not sure the Blazers needed to do this, though. Its impossible to know, but im wondering whether anyone else was offering Hibbert above $50m.

    The Pacers have even less on their books, though. Their 2013-14 roster is essentially Danny Granger, Miles Plumkee, and team options. I wouldn't be shocked to see them match.


    If the Nets do get Howard, what do they give up? Wallace! Lopez, and a first rounder? Another note resting development: Jason Kidd has said he will follow Deron Williams to wherever he goes. If that means Dallas, there's speculation that Brooklyn becomes the most likely destination for Nash.
     
  19. Nom Chompsky

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    Kumail Nanjiani on Twitter

     
  20. Gator

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    I dont understand how the 2 are comparable. Howard is a flat out liar and he's been caught several times. He has gotten a coach & GM fired (he's not the 1st) on a team he had no intention of staying with!

    From what I understand, the worst part of the decision was James not telling the Cavs before he went on ESPN. Asshole move, I agree. Although, I am not sure the amount of notice that would have been required to NOT make it an asshole move, especially if Dan Gilbert goes apeshit and runs to the media.