The EPIC Turkey Day.. ZOMG & THE EPIC XMAS D.T BOOM ROASTED!

Well, you see, BigPerson's cousin made him feel like he was wrong about something that he felt very strongly about, as evinced in his frequent, "Why are you holding your arm like that, fag?," and other like comments; because hearing that his cousin was not gay contradicted one of his deepest feelings as a person...that he was... Because of this, BigPerson had to repress the very nature of his being, resulting in self-alienation and anxiety. The damage wrought on his identity deserves an apology, damnit.

 

Obviously, because he got mad at me for being right. Plus he felt perfectly fine calling me an Oreo. So that makes him a racist. Racism>Homophobia = His dickishness>My dickishness.

 

Flirting is all about subtlety. While the blowjob thing is a poor example, the whole point is communicating "I want to fuck you/date you/etc" without actually having to say it.

That's the whole thing.

One, you have deniability -- you can't be turned down if you didn't make an offer. Two, it's a gauge of compatible conversational styles -- both an invitation and a test, if you would. Third, it's much more fun, and engages on a more thorough level. It's like telling a joke; you don't just go straight to the punchline and say it in an earnest and straightforward way. Rather, you use the punchline to allude to something that the audience picks up on their own.

 

Also, I feel like everybody is pretty much underlining dcc's point.

Yeah, some girls flirt for no reason. Some girls say they give great head without an implicit offer. Some girls twirl their hair and expect you to immediately pick up on it, and all of that can be confusing as hell.

But if you're able to mix it up and wade through it, that's super attractive and will get you laid. I cringe at some of the failures I've made to connect the dots in my life. Want an example? You don't have a choice:

I'm 17 years old, and I'm walking around a sex shop with a girl who spends a good portion of the night complaining about how she wishes she weren't a virgin. I didn't even get so much as a hug. Then, I had the nerve to be shocked 5 years later when I found out she used to think I was asexual.

 

Of all of the nonsense I have read on this board, and the last, that is the first thing I found viscerally disturbing. I would say congratulations, but I am far to busy hoping you die by being trampled by a group of fat leprous nudist.

 

My stepsister is hot, not a blood relation, and a girl. My cousin fits none of these criteria.

 

You might be asexual, but she is insane. Going to a sex shop with a person, and telling them you want to be deflowered, in an attempt to incite that guy to make the situation sexual, is insane. Telling a guy you give great blowjobs in an attempt to incite him to make a move on you, is fucking crazy. I know it works, I get it, I know they are the ones that make the situation sexual by suggesting themselves as sexual objects, but it is insane. Women, you want guys to like you as a person?, it's impossible, when all of your "signals" function for the express purpose of denying that "aspect" of you.

 

I agree with you here, and in general about "manning up" and risking rejection. It's a little confusing to me exactly what the men in this discussion are complaining about. Who cares if a woman is flirting, teasing, or just insane? If she's giving you anything that might possibly be perceived as a signal, and you like her, what's the harm in acting on it? If you read her right, score. If you read her wrong, she will let you know at some point.

The thing that annoys me about your position here is the creepiness issue. It's hard for men to swallow complaints about creepiness no matter whether we err on the side of aggressiveness or the side of low confidence. The "dance rape" discussion a few pages back was a good example. I wish women would say "it's no big deal if I have to turn down some guys; it's a small price to pay for the ones I like to feel okay about approaching me." Instead the message is "ew, I hate having to deal with all the creepy losers." Maybe that's just a subtle, dishonest way of women trying to make themselves appear to be desirable, and deep down they really think the former quote even when they say the latter, I don't know.

Also, Dcc, because I have a good memory, before you go too far overboard about how you want guys to man up, show some confidence and act on your subtle yet clear signals, go ahead and look over this old thread:

<a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.theidiotboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1856&p=90553&hilit=date#p90553" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1856&p=90553&hilit=date#p90553</a>

I think you owe the guys here an apology.

 

Well atleast I can say I learned one thing here in TiB. But what do you do when a girl says "I give the best blowjobs" or "I give the best sex ever." Do you say "Well prove it?" or do you just plop your dick out let her do the thinking (or well the sucking) or do you just lean in to kiss her and go from there?

Decisions decisions.

 

Why, though? Why can't you like hanging out with a girl, think of her as a person, and also want to fuck her over the side of a pool table?

When a girl says "I give great blowjobs", she's not saying that she wants you to jump on her, she's just nudging you to think of her in a sexual way. Now, I find that a bit gauche, to be honest -- I much prefer pointing at my crotch and thrusting -- but sometimes people like to be obvious.

Smile and say you're invested in celibacy.

Catnip.

 

So I was the one who started this whole argument, and I don't really understand how this falls in the category "crazy." First of all, I was with a guy I kind of flirt with all the time, and am already friends with, and second, I could give two shits about him caring about me as a person. I just would like to screw. Given the opening--being invited to spend the night at his apartment because I was a little tipsy and being told that I would have to share the bed--I whispered in his ear that I give great blowjobs and would make it worthwhile.

Had he dragged me off to screw right then and there, I would have been super excited about it, but he did not and then I became a hot mess. BUT, how is that insane? I'm not saying this is the appropriate pickup tool across the board, I'm just saying that if this situation happens to you, you have an opening. If I'm approaching the guy I want to marry (?) I'm /probably/ not going to do this.

 

It's funny women have the luxury to be the decider when it comes to all this. Every woman is different and their criteria is always different, there isn't one standard there. So it's impossible for men to always be right. Why are guys fearful of rejection? Because its the most likely outcome if they sexually pursue every woman they are interested in. The guys who have sex with a bunch of randoms are the guys who play the numbers game.

Imagine if women had the burden of having the gender roles reversed and they were always expected to make the move. They would then have to do all the things men complain about. I bet you they would experience the same uncertainty men do.

 

I say it's crazy in relation to dcc's and everyone's point that men are often less than good at reading signals. Meaning that women giving signals often translates into them making the guy think of them sexually, as you said, can often be done without the woman actually intending it. i.e. if the way a woman signals to a guy that she likes him is to get him to think of her sexually, this exact thing is the reason for all the confusion over signals. Imagine, and I'm sure you'll even say you have done this, as a guy trying to get with a girl that is a friend by going to a sex shop with her and bemoaning your virginity. Imagine, as a guy, trying to get a girl by bragging over cunnilingus skills. Now, rachiii, telling the guy you will make it worthwhile is telling him you will blow him, so, I'm not really talking about that so much I guess... But where it went from him putting the sex on the table to you, he balked. Why? I'm not jealous, I'm saying the dynamic is crazy, and obviously problematic.

 

I typically put her in a reverse arm bar and fart on her head, but I'm old-fashioned like that. That tactic may not be hip with today's kids.

 

Women worry far more than you realize, I think. Most women aren't just sitting on a pile of broken hearts and mac cosmetics, waiting for guys to grovel.

They're reading internet threads full of nitpicking and thinking "well, shit, what chance do I have?" Relatively few people have full sexual/interpersonal confidence, myself included.

Also, turn the fucking tables. Just do it. Don't worry about it. Be the decider. Be engaging, and charming, and dance your ass off, then wait for the women to come to you. YOU CAN FUCKING DO IT TODDAMUS, I BELIEVE IN YOU BUDDY.

 

Hi.