The sixth time's the charm

I think he inadvertently added the 0 after the decimal and meant .19

 

That does make a little more sense.

I believe after you stop drinking you lose .01% every 30-40 minutes afterwards. So if you go to bed with a .19 you'll be down to a .08 in about 6 hours. I didn't calculate it, just off the top of my head so that could be wrong. Which I can attest to doing sometimes. Party all night till 2-3 in the morning, wake up for work at 7:30 and shoot into work. Probably not the best idea.

 

I'm not even going to get into what laws should be, but DUIs are one area I have VERY little sympathy for. My next door neighbor when I was growing up was killed by a drunk driver at 3 IN THE FUCKING AFTERNOON. That piece of shit also had a lovely 3 DUIs on his record already.

Fortunately, from college through my young adult life, I've had the good fortune to live in places where I had very little need to drive before or after bars. I realize the grey area, and can see how people can get one. I don't justify it, but when people blow a .10 and get busted for their first time, I can see how its a mistake and you learn from it. But I know people who take it all far too lightly. When I was in college, I had a friend who was driving me back to my apartment after a night out. I was trashed so I didn't really take stock of the fact that he in no way should have been driving. We were pulled over cause he swerved wildly and he proceeded to fail all roadside sobriety tests. He probably would have blown at least double the legal limit. But the cop, wait for it, took his keys and said he could pick them up at the station the next day and allowed him to walk home. And he picked them up without repercussion the next day. We all thought it was great that night, but the next day I was like "what the hell kind of precedent does that set?"

When I used to tend bar at a country club back home, easily the nicest and most prestigious club in WI, alot of the members lived probably within a 2 mile radius from the club in the affluent suburb it was located in. It was pretty much a well known fact that the police had an agreement with the club cause members would leave shitrocked on a VERY regular basis and nary a traffic stop occurred. Again, that crap is the reason that people get multiple of these or pedestrians get clipped.

Whatever happens with your first offense, if you get a second there is no way in hell you should be able to touch keys for a LONG time. A third should be grounds for castration as far as I'm concerned.

 

I have one DWI from when I lived in Dallas going to school, and boy did that suck. I deserved it with the whole 'first time actually getting caught' deal. I was going to write up the whole story, but I don't feel like getting that in depth about it. Basically I was only living in Dallas while going to school and my license was from Oklahoma with my Oklahoma home address on it, and that turned it into a pretty big mess.

Needless to say, after all the fines and classes and the bullshit I had to go through (especially spending just over 24 hours in a Dallas County holding cell waiting to be arraigned and post bail), I will never get a second offense. It's been years since that happened, and I have never so much as thought about getting behind the wheel after drinking. How people rack up multiple offenses is baffling to me.

 

Oops, my mistake. It was a .19


CA is zero tolerance after the first one.

 

Okay, a question to all of you pro-punishment zealots: When, in the history of ANYTHING, has increasing the severity of a punishment stopped a crime?
Did you know that there's a crime that can get you executed on your first offense? MURDER! And nobody kills anymore, right? Right?

I've got a lot to say on this, but I have to pick up Li'l Bandit, so I'll be back.

 

This is a problem the world over. I've been pulled over drunk, and had several near misses, but never been issued a citation. I've lost friends to DUI accidents, my Dad's friend is on his 6th DUI over the span of 15 years, but never hit anyone. Incidentally, he now drunkenly pilots a moped.

My buddies and I discuss this kind of often: why is it not the bar's responsibility? I know, you can get just as wasted (or worse) in the privacy of your home, but you can do all kinds of shit there that's illegal and drive afterwards. If the bar is legally inebriating you, why do they not have some responsibility for allowing you to drive home?

I think it's a huge problem in the US where you have to drive everywhere, but I agree with Dixie, making the penalties stiffer won't reduce the fact that people like to drink and then they go home. In the majority of American cities, there simply aren't cabs to call. There are ways around it, but they are typically a tremendous pain in the ass. Who has a sober, awake friend at last call that lives 5 minutes away?

My solution was always to ride a motorcycle. It kept me sober knowing I needed to have balance, control and attention when I was going home, I was far less likely to be pulled over, and in the event of an accident, I'm less likely to hurt anyone else. If I got over 2-3 drinks in me, I arranged for a ride home: I could leave the bike, since it was not my only means of transportation. Simple as that. But, I also wrecked early and have a profound respect for riding safely. There was never any "I'm totally fine to drive" bullshit.

 

Oh for fuck's sake. Way to curtail responsibility. Let's erode our choices and freedom a little more just so you don't burn alone. YOU bought the drinks, YOU ASKED for them. Why the fuck shouldn't they serve you? Waaahhhh they made me do it, they didn't cut me off. This is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's not the bar's responsibility to baby sit you. they're supposed to administer sobriety tests for all 200 people they see each night? Nor has it been their responsibility as watering holes for the past however many millenia they've existed to play that little game. Next you'll say the victims should be able to sue the bar for someone else's stupidity behind the wheel. Hell, while we're at it let's sue the cops on patrol that night for not finding you before you hit someone.

It amazes me how far people will go to rationalize their behavior, or to avoid blame for their actions.

Amazingly I've never been caught. Used to do some horrendous shit behind the wheel. Drive with one eye open so the double vision went away, popped curbs for fun, peel outs, 100mph. My friend got pulled over blowing at least a .2, did the field sobriety test and fucking passed. We went home with a speeding ticket. Then you get some asshole with the same BAC rear-ends a student while doing 80, exploding her car and leaving her incapacitated the rest of her miserable life. My friend offed himself after leaving my house with too many drinks in him. I went to bed without taking his keys (like many nights) and he left some time in the night. Wrecked his car on the highway bad enough his parents cremated him without a viewing. Luckily he didn't take anyone with him.

I don't like the idea of villainizing substances any more than they already are. DUIs should be dealt with on a case by case basis. That's the whole reason judges are there, right, to administer/facilitate objective justice? Let 'em do their job without interference from special interest groups with agendas or people out to profit from tragedy. Some people will not learn from a mistake, nor do they have any concern for the safety of others. Deal with them accordingly. If we want to live in a free and open society we have to take good with the rotten.

 

They are called Dram Shop laws and most states do have them placing at least some of the liability on the purveyor of the alcohol rather than just the consumer. And yes, Charles, a third party can sue the bar because a drunk patron hurt him/her.

There are Anti-Dram Shop laws that place sole responsibility on the consumer, though and half a dozen or so states have those in place. Louisiana being one of those.

 

Well beyond the fact that some of us don't want to live in a nanny state where total strangers are responsible for the behavior of grown ass adults:

-You could just lie about not being the driver and continue to get served anyway. Unless of course you want absolutely no one getting drunk at a bar ever.
-You would need an unreasonably large staff to police the bar on any busy night. No way can a bartender or two keep tabs on that many people during a rush.

Sadly, some people share your sentiment though and we are starting to see bars being held accountable, a win for anyone who wants to see price increases at bars and drinking establishments going out of business.

 

"Smart Serve" laws in Canada are beyond ridiculous they way the hold bars accountable. As in:

A drunk customer leaves the bar, stupidly walks into traffic 10 blocks away, and gets smoked by a car. The bar is entirely responsible.

A drunk gets into a cab, and the cab is hit by a DIFFERENT drunk driver. That bar is entirely reponsible for the drunk in the cab, even though that had nothing to do with them whatsoever.

There is much more monstrously retarded faggotry MSart Serve installed as bylaws. Laws like these JACKED bar prices in this city to guarantee that you will NEVER pay below $6 for a domestic beer or well again. Did you know in London the cheapest place to drink are the strip bars? It's the fucked up.

 

I'm well aware of the Dram Shop Laws and the like. So far they're unsuccessful here. Also, the civil suits which are in most cases very warranted. but making a bar keep complacent in DUIs and related accidents is bastardly. What it will effectively do is limit the options for bar owners, drive up prices, and allow fuck-stick insurance companies yet another avenue of revenue. Fabulous.

What Crown describes is a recipe for rioting. Fuck grain prices. Don't inflate my already taxed to hell beer.

 

Let me clarify: I don't mean the bar is responsible for the person's actions once they are intoxicated. The bar could be partially responsible for getting said patron home once they are unable to drive. Party buses, drunk shuttles, even discounted taxis are all things I've seen and used before that make the whole experience more fun and relaxing. Hospitals and dentists are the only other places I can think of where the establishment is impairing your ability to drive as part of their service, and they have a variety of options for getting people home and they assume a lot more responsibility in this area. I am not suggesting bars and restaurants should operate at that level, but hell...provide some options for your customers and make the whole situation safer, more fun and probably more profitable.

 

For clarification these numbers should be .15 and .08 I must have been drunk when I posted.

My understanding it that it is hard to sue and win under the Dram Shop law, our state law says that it is a crime to serve an intoxicated person alchohol, so technically on a weekend about 75% of the people in my bar are over .08 which is intoxicated and therefore a crime.
It scares me that I may serve someone and they go kill somebody in their car, I frequently ask people to get a cab some do, some don't. I feel that by asking them to get a cab I have fulfilled my moral obligation but it they killed somebody my feelings would change.

 

When I was a server we were required to complete an online course that "educated" us about signs of intoxication and how to respond to a drunk customer ordering more drinks. I'm not sure if online certifications like this hold up in court, but I thought it was kind of ridiculous that restaurants and bars might need to cover their asses.

I don't think bars and restaurants should be accountable for anything DUI-related. Yeah, cut someone off when they're drunk and obnoxious, but that's it. They have no moral obligation to see that my drunk ass gets home. That's where being an adult and taking responsibility for your actions comes in.

 

Saw a couple examples of this in the UK recently, and even took advantage of one in Inverness. The wife and I were drinking at a pub and they offered a free shuttle ride home to anyone who wanted it, even if you didn't drive there in the first place.

I imagine it would cost a fair bit to maintain, with wages, insurance, the vehicle(s), gas, etc, but it's not entirely unreasonable.

 

I've never had any issues with drinking and driving. When I had a motorcycle, I could feel my riding was impaired after a single beer (and read in the The Hurt Report that something like 75% of motorcycle accidents occur when the rider has only two drinks in his system). Since I often took the motorcycle to the bar, I got in the habit of staying cold sober.

Now that I have a car, I'll allow myself a couple beers but drink very conservatively if I'm driving. Having the motorcycle made me pretty good at socializing and enjoying the bar scene without being piss drunk, now I prefer it that way actually. For that reason I usually offer to be the DD, since it's no skin off my back.

Unless you're an alcoholic, I just don't see how anyone would not have the restraint to avoid drinking and driving.

 

Spoiler

Everything that Dcc001 said is dead on. The problem I have with DUI laws is that they are punishing you for a crime that has not happened yet (the obvious exception being when there is injury or property damage). (Has anyone seen or read "Minority Report?")

This is like the cops going up to a random hunter and arresting him for murder because he might accidentally shoot one of his buddies.

Sigh, here come the red dots: I've been arrested for DWI eight times. I've only been convicted three times. I got out of the other cases for a variety of reasons: good lawyer, bad cops, circumstantial evidence, etc.
In all of my cases, there has never been any injury or property damage, and I was always just slightly over the limit.
In Texas, your third DWI conviction is a felony, which I absolutely do NOT agree with. Thank you MADD, you fucking harpies. Also, in Texas, DWIs are the only crime that you cannot get out of probation early. I have 10 years of probation! (well, 9 years now)

The second time I got a DWI, it was in Austin, the home of MADD. My lawyer was a condescending hypocritical prick (fuck you David Reynolds). He was annoyed that I actually wanted him to defend me instead of just pleading out, and was always giving me lectures about how I “obviously have a drinking problem,” even though he admitted to drinking and driving himself! He treated me like I was some kind of illiterate country bumpkin, and I finally got so tired of it that I told him: “Look pal, if everyone followed the rules, you wouldn’t have a job.”
In the end, it was a complete waste of $5,000. I would have been better off representing myself.

Breathalyzers are very inaccurate. I haven’t had anything to drink in about 14 hours, but if I were to rinse my mouth with Listerine and blow into a breathalyzer, it would say that I was plastered. If you are intoxicated, rinsing your mouth out with water or some other non-alcoholic beverage can lower your perceived BAC. Eating something helps too; just watch out for those foods that will give you a false positive! (They’re out there)

This is totally true. In Texas, there is this thing called the “Driver Responsibility Program.” It is a fine levied on people with DWI, driving without insurance, etc. My fine is $1,560. What’s fucked up about it is they are fining you twice; once with the initial act, and second with the “Responsibility Program.” I did jail time! When will I have paid for my crime?!

“Okay Bandit, what do you propose we do?” you are probably asking.

If someone is actually intoxicated, they should absolutely be taken off the road and thrown in the drunk tank for the night. As long as no one was hurt and there was no property damage, the offender will receive a fine, but won’t face jail time or probation. And that “3rd time is a felony” crap has got to go. Same thing with stupid rules like being charged with DWI for sleeping in your car.
Instead of jailing people, they should put more effort on education/rehabilitation. Going to rehab helped me.

EDIT: For the record, I don't drink and drive anymore.