The TIB guide to Men and Women

Except it starts to become a tad weird when it gets blown out of proportion and girls start judging each other harshly because *GASP!* Kara showed up to work today wearing a top with green stripes and that TOTALLY clashes with her pink Chanel purse. What a bitch!! At that point, they're no longer trying to measure up to society, but to each other.

It's not restricted to women, but it's definitely much more common. There are exceptions to every rule, just like there are some women who not only know the rules of sports, but they know who's playing and care who wins. Your friend is among the minority when it comes to guys.

There's nothing wrong with having a nice purse or pair of shoes. What, specifically, makes them nice? I know how to tell a cool car from an ugly one; purses and heels, not so much. Again, it's not the "why" I'm after, but the "how." The selection process that goes through a woman's head when comparing 2 or 3 pairs of shoes has always eluded me.

 

I think it's more than just men/women with respect to shoes. It's just one of those random cultural signifiers that crops up in different societies.

I know a lot of guys who have dozens of pairs of sneakers. Not coincidentally, most of them are black guys who grew up in or around New York. I'm sure there are other communities that have similar things, but for some black dudes in New York, sneakers are definitely a thing, and you WILL get comments from other people with similar taste.

On the flip side, I'm sure that there are probably female peasant farmers who couldn't care less about shoes.

 

On the topic of funny women, something happened to me a few weeks ago which probably hints at why some women don't learn to be hilarious.

I was at a party and met this girl for the first time. She was cute; not mega cute but certainly enough for a roll in the hay, so I went up and started talking to her. She was one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. I was in tears - literally everything she said had me pretty much collapsing with laughter. I told her within about five minutes that I wanted her to be one of my friends for life, and that she's fucking awesome. She now is one of my closest people.

Friends for life, note. Somehow, her being hilarious had made me not want to sleep with her at all. I all of a sudden just didn't particularly want to put my pork stick in her, even though I like her a lot and think she's awesome. I have no idea why.

I still don't get it. Anyone ever experience anything like this, or have any idea why this might have happened? I can understand her being funny wouldn't have made me more attracted, but it literally made me look at her in a completely sexless way, even though I think she's awesome.

To clarify, I've obviously slept with girls who were funny before, and made me laugh. It was just the fact that she was piss your pants hilarious that seemed to flip the switch.

 

In our influential western society, that is pretty much on the nose. Turn on any random TV and wait about five seconds for another version of that statement.

It has gone from "aesthetically pleasing" to "be attractive or you're nothing" not so gradually in the last few years. The obsession with presentation grows every day. Men and women alike.

 

This kind of explains it.

 

I have no idea why, but I dont think this is just you. My best friend is super hot and absolutely hilarious, but she has never been in a relationship and rarely ever gets laid. Tons of people -straight guys included- love her, but I think the fact that shes always cracking jokes is part of the block there. Its like the female equivalent of the "friend zone."

Disclaimer: I know the question Im about to ask is a loaded one, but Im not intending it as some trap to launch a political debate, so dont take it there.

What is it with guys and catcalling? And I dont mean genuinely trying to pick a girl up out in public, I mean straight up catcalling: honking your horn, yelling something from your car, saying something as shes passing you etc. Is this supposed to result in anything with the girl? Has this ever worked? Has anyone ever heard of it ever working? Like, has a girl ever run after your car or stopped what she was doing to respond (positively) to a comment about how hot she is? If its not meant to work, then what is the point, especially since its well known that generally it goes unappreciated? I am genuinely curious about why that whole behavior sticks so fucking hard with guys, from their point of view. I have my theories, but I have never heard a guy talk about this and Id like to know.

(This keyboard doesnt have an apostrophe.)

 

It's called Fishing. Throw your line out, see what bites. You play the numbers enough, it works. Knew a dude that would walk into a club, go right up to a girl and say "Hi, I'm Joe. Wanna fuck?" Most of the time the girl scoffed, but every now and then it fucking worked. Had a friend in his 40s, he'd holler at girls as we walked from bar to bar. "Hey, beautiful!" Corny shit like that. Embarrassed the hell out of me... until he got someone's attention. Un-fucking-believable. He didn't fuck that one that night, but he got her number. It takes all types I guess. Some guys can just not give a fuck about rejection or looking stupid, and some girls have that low of self esteem. These were also non-threatening looking white guys.

If it didn't work, guys would probably stop.

Ok, no we wouldn't.

 

I don't really know the answer. "Because we can" has always struck me as not quite right, since I CAN do a lot of things, like wear my underwear on the outside of my pants, but choose not to.

I similarly find the "expression of power" explanation unconvincing, because I get the impression these men who do it are hoping it will work, although perhaps they admit that it is a low percentage play. Men who don't get a response to cat calls tend to get disconcertingly angry, which signals to me that it didn't go according to plan for them. So they seem to be expecting success, however improbably.

I think the men who do it are just stupid and trying it because it has a low cost and some infinitesimal possibility of success. Kind of like Jerry Seinfeld says.

 

I suspect it's because catcalling is slightly more subtle than grabbing your penis and yelling that you're a heterosexual.

 

I went to college in a location that is very clearly divided into "students" and "locals" (read: white/asian/token and hispanic for those playing along at home). One day I was skateboarding to the grocery store to pick something up, and had reached the parking lot. I was cruising slowly behind an Asian girl who was an obvious student, and looked good from the back. The kind of good that you would need a true trainwreck of a face to undermine. Coming the other way, also noticing this fine specimen of Eastern vigor, was a low rider with about three or four young local men. They do the slow pass and the one in the passenger's seat tries the whole "Ay Mami, you should come for a ride with us" and whatnot. The girl stares straight ahead and keeps walking, and the general body language she exhibited was probably the most concise "I am so far above you in every station in life I'm amazed you're even allowed to look at me" I've ever seen.

The guys immediately switched their attention to me, and the guy in the passenger's seat threatened to shove my skateboard up my ass. Just for having witnessed their failure. They also tossed in a racial comment for good measure.

I laughed and kept skating toward the entrance, but that story has stuck with me ever since, simply for how absurd it was when examined logically.

 

Be right back, gonna go talk shit to Wesley Snipes.


Something audreymonroe mentioned brought up a question in my mind. I know that many men and women advocate approaching women in "non-traditional" places (i.e. in parks, the grocery store, coffee shops, etc.) because they say that they're likely to be less guarded and more open to conversation than in a bar. Makes sense, particularly since I tend to do best in situations where I can actually talk to a girl at a reasonable volume. Wit doesn't work well in clubs, especially when it's as meager as mine.

That being said...I personally have an extreme aversion to bothering people in public. Hell, I don't even like asking someone to move so I can get out of the subway. The way I see it is that it seems kind of rude to get all up in her business when some lady is just trying to go about her day and buy some groceries or enjoy her magazine.

This question is probably vague to the point of being unanswerable...but where's the line on this? Is it merely a matter of "It's ok if I end up liking the guy" or should there be some rules that men should follow for when it's appropriate to approach women in settings not really designed for that sort of thing?

 

Most of the time when guys catcall me they're alone.

 

I'm not a habitual catcaller but if I honk the horn or whistle at a girl, I usually do it at a semi-attractive girl. I figure the ridiculously hot girl gets it all the time and maybe I made the "eh" looking girl's day.

 

I think the only time I did anything close to catcalling was when I was super drunk, outside of a bar with a group of friends, waiting for a taxi to pick us up. And it really was just to break the monotony of waiting for the cab. And I was just shouting things like "Hey yellow shirt. Yellow Shirt! YELLOW SHIRT...........Marry me!" Nothing really degrading, mean spirited, sexist, rude or anything. Like I said, just killing time.

I don't know if I've ever really seen dedicated catcalling like audreymonroe describes. I don't know if it's a result of living in smaller cities or what.

Is it just general rude comments? Whistling? Horn honking?

Or have guys ever gotten clever with some vocal harmonizing, guitar playing, and choreographed dance movements?

I'm curious about this as well. Since, much like MoreCowbell, I'm more inclined to not want to bother women when they are, in all likelihood, just trying to get on with their daily lives.

 

Maybe I'm just missing the point, but I think there's a difference between bothering someone (ie: being creepy, making them uncomfortable, having an obviously forced conversation because YOU'RE uncomfortable, etc) and talking to someone you've never met. Guess it depends on how you think you interact with people, what you're capable of, how well you can read other people, etc.

I walked into a library the other day to study, the entire room was empty except for one girl who was sitting at a table by herself reading. I had my pick of any seat in the place, but I learned to embrace awkwardness a long time ago and use it as a positive so I walked over to her table and pulled out the other seat and almost sat down.

Me: Eh, nevermind. I'll sit here instead.
Her: ...
Me: What would you have done if I had sat down? Bet it would've freaked you out.
Her: *laughing* ...yeah, a little.
Me: More like a lot.
Her: *still laughing* ...I wouldn't say a lot. I'd have just ignored you.
Me: Which you're clearly doing now.

I have a girlfriend, so it's not like it was some big deal to me, I just like being funny/slightly awkward because that's what I'm good at it and I can make it endearing or charming or whatever it needs to be. But now there's a line of communication, and I'm not just some creepy asshole who's sitting six feet from her. I always laugh when people try to start talking after sitting quiet for awhile. You better have something awesome to say because that conversation is carrying ten minutes of awkward silence on it's shoulders.

I've never understood why people think that you have to talk to people a certain way because you're at a certain place. Just do whatever it is you want to do, when you want to do it. Nothing wrong with that, and you've got nothing to lose.

Edit: If you're completely smitten with some random girl you see out in public, and you have no idea what the hell to say to her, just be straightforward and don't waste her time. I came up with this for my best friend, and it's pretty much money in the bank if you're a decently social person. Won't work every time obviously, but most girls like it (or at the very least don't reach for their mace).

"Hi, you don't know me, and I've got to be honest, I'm awful at this kind of thing, so don't laugh, but I'd love to grab a coffee or take you out for a grilled cheese lunch or something."

Just smile, be fucking goofy, whatever...and respond accordingly. So easy. It's not a fucking pick up line, it's using what you think your weaknesses are to your advantage. This is all based off the assumption that most guys don't approach women they don't know NOT because they think it's inconsiderate, but because they think they'll get rejected.

I mean, I get how it can be inconsiderate to waste a woman's time by being have a weird conversation with her, but let's not kid ourselves. A guy isn't being polite when he refrains from talking to a woman, he's making excuses being he's a pussy.

 

In regards to getting a number: are we still doing the one/two day wait in terms of texting and calling?

These last few months have been hit or miss. Also the rule seems to change depending on the situation in which you met. During the day, everyone sober, I can see the one or two day wait is solid. But if you meet at a club, its dark, everyone's drinking, and everyone is talking to a bunch of people is the next day "Hey its Parker, nice meeting you last night. Here's my number." Or calling it right there so she saves it has worked.

What are the thoughts on this?