The TIB guide to Men and Women

Am I the only guy in the world who has that conversation before fucking? I mean I usually have that conversation before kissing. I know my situation isn't going to work for a lot of people - but if you're looking for a hookup, and you know just how many women are out there looking for a long term relationship - you also know the odds of having your agendas clash. Is it really worth that drama when you could just talk about that shit before you fuck?

I usually like talking to the girls I've fucked after the sex. If they don't have enough personality to have a decent conversation, I'm skeptical that they'll be a decent lay. I mean sure there are exceptions where the girl is boring at everything but fucking, but for the most part - fun conversationalist equates to decent fuck, and amazing sex partner should at least be able to find a few interesting things to talk about. If there are two equally hot/trustworthy girls and one of them is fun to talk too, and the other seems to have no personality other than maybe being a fun fuck, I'd try for the fun to talk too girl first, every time.

Also? I fucking love to cuddle.

 

You are the exception, not the rule.

Drama is going to show up, regardless of what's communicated at whenever point. Feelings develop one way or the other.

 

Does that not seem a bit like saying 'Why wear seatbelts? Driving will still be dangerous.'

I mean I know Drama will show up and reciprocated feelings will develop - but does inviting drama and taking no steps to avoid clashing agendas (other than talking like a caveman) actually result in any positive gain? I mean if you know there's a good chance that the girl you're about to fuck wouldn't be interested if she knew the truth of your agenda - don't you feel like a horrible person? And if you honestly think that the girl you're about to fuck will still be up for it if she knows that this is going to a fuck buddy situation at most - wouldn't everyone be better off if you actually said that out loud, rather than just grunting after the sex?

 

It's more that you're used to a population of women that is comfortable having a conversation to the tune of "So I want you to put on a polar bear mask, violate me with a tesla coil and then punch me in the tit" within an hour of meeting them.

The rest of us have to deal with a female population that will often maintain that they're a virgin even after you've slept with them. It requires a bit more organic of a navigation.

 

What Aetius said. For the common guy, he can have that conversation and this shit will STILL come up sooner or later.

 

In their defense, this is possible with you.

 

I don't think so. Rather, I think this is a mentality that's borne out of a number of factors/occurrences that can exist in any type of sexuality:

- Maturity.
- Previously "being hurt".
- Lack of desperation for sex.
- Confidence.

It could be any of these in combination. But, basically, when you're old enough to realise that the piece of tail in your sights is not worth the hassle if everything goes to shit then you're at the point where you'll have the conversation first. Then, at least, if it does go sour then any hard feelings can't reasonably include bullshit claims of "leading on" or "lying about your feelings" or any one of a number of other claims that were levied against me in my youth.

If the desire to bed outweighs the thoughts of where it could all go wrong later, then you're going to fuck first and conversate later (if at all).

You're seriously underestimating the dread that goes through someone's mind when they're expecting torture and all they're getting is cuddles.

 

Heeeell no. Some people's specific after care needs practically require it. When I first started exploring my whole BDSM fetish, my favourite and most trusted partner was the one who cuddled the shit out of me when the play was over. He'd smack me around to a level just shy of the safe word and then take the most amazing cuddly care of me and make me feel all safe and warm and fuzzy.

 

Yay, Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I'm not saying that conversation never comes up. I mean there's no defense against massively insane whore logic - but most women aren't actually insane. Letalone insane enough to ignore clearly spoken communication. Plenty of women are crazy enough to take the absence of a clear answer as whatever answer they were hoping for though. But those women are usually ones that will cut away when you communicate clearly that you're never going to marry them from the early stages. And they're ones I'd just rather not fuck, much less fuck under the false illusion that maybe it will turn into a romance novel relationship.

There's a world of difference between the way shit plays out when you have that conversation before you fuck, and then 6 weeks later after fucking 15 times, when you have the conversation again and say 'look I really like spending time, but I'm still just really enjoying what we have, and I'm not looking for anything more or anything exclusive.' and when you're ducking flying crockery as you try and explain that your non committal cave man grunts were not the affirmation of abiding love and monogamy that she had interpreted them as, and that you had never agreed to be monogamous, much less remove all pictures of other women including your mother and sisters from your apartment.

 

In my experience, guys love to have this conversation and then revise history later when women fail to fall desperately, stalkerishly in love with them. I think the difference is in niches like yours, word is bond (I am guessing), and breaking the rules is fucked up. That doesn't seem to be the case with people who qualify themselves as 'normal.' Apparently in those relationships, you can just say whatever you want and use the excuse, "Well I didn't think you meant it when you clearly laid out what you wanted!"

 

In the BDSM thing, word is bond - because if people don't trust you to be honest about that sort of shit, why would they trust you to stop when they safeword or put on a condom when they're tied up. That shit isn't cool.

But I really don't get how failing to disclose your interest in a relationship progression (or lack therof) is any different from failing to disclose that you're married. Or that you have HPV. If you honestly think it will make a difference to someone's willingness to sleep with you, regardless of how relevant you think it is to the one night stand you're planning, I think you have a basic ethical responsibility to man the fuck up and tell someone. Lying by omission is still fucking lying. And while I see the karma in leaving a BMW keyring on the table at the bar when you don't actually have a BMW (I'm not saying I agree with it, but anyone who cares what kind of car you drive is a horrible human being, and the least you deserve for using an expensive keyring as whore bait), I generally see lying to get laid as a very short step away from rape by deception.

And honestly, I'm really, really fucking loathe to use that phrase in this sort of conversation. It puts me squarely amongst the ranks of the lunatic fringe of feminist morons. But I think we all agree that sneaking up on your buddies wife while she's sleeping, pretending that you're her husband, fucking her while shes half asleep and believes your bullshit and legging it before she wakes up or your buddy gets home - is clearly rape, even though she just thinks she had sleep sex with her husband. You've let her think that you're someone you're not and she's consented to the sex because you lied. I think most of us would agree that if a guy with HIV fucked your sister, or your mother, while wearing a condom, without disclosing that he knows that he has HIV, it's fucking rape. Even if nothing bad comes of it. That fucker didn't tell the truth about the circumstances around the sex - and chances are pretty good that your mother or sister wouldn't have fucked him if he'd told the truth. I think very few people would argue with calling those events rape.

And I'm reasonably sure that none of (or hopefully very fucking few) of the people reading this would consider themselves a rapist. Despite thinking that it's ok to let the interpretation of where the dynamic is going be misconstrued. Because it really is a much smaller lie than pretending to be someone's husband, or failing to disclose that you have HIV. But I think we all agree that you're still whoring if you fuck someone for a thousand dollars an hour, or for $20 and a ride to the next truck stop. And I'm not trying to call anyone out with this - I'm just trying to say that I really don't think you'd let that shit slide and let the caveman grunt drive the false expectations if you thought your way through the ethics of what you're doing.

 

Is this going into the Perm thread? Scootah kind of killed it by turning it into a sexual thing instead of a relationship thing. Let's get back to the relationship, communication, day-to-day stuff.

 

I tried this once, while in bed with both of us naked. The whole “I really like you but I don’t see anything long term happening between us, so lets just have fun tonight” seemed noble at the time. It also meant her getting upset with me and asking me to leave. I was worried I was cultivating a bad rep and had decided to be more honourable in future hookups, more proof of the stupidity of 20 year olds. I think all it did was crush her self esteem, not to mention wrecking what could have been the best 3 minutes of her week.

Sometimes 1 night stands need the illusion that this might be going somewhere special. It’s like the last year you believed in Santa. Even though you knew deep down it was a farce, it was still a bit magical.

If you meet someone in a pub for the first time and end up back at their place do you really need to have that deep an meaningful chat? Fuck no. Keep your mouth shut and unwrap your presents.

 

... Ok, see, this is the part I don't fucking get. Would you be equally ok with not telling the woman that you were married? That you have herpes, but it's cool because you're not having an outbreak at the moment? That you fucked a guy last night? You know the information that you're withholding might cause the person you're about to have sex with, to not want to have sex with you - where is the magic boundary of ethically ok between 'keeping the illusion' and 'you might want to see a doctor' and how do you seriously justify 'I'm an awesome guy, I totally had sex with a woman who wouldn't have slept with me if I'd told her the truth?' and sleep at night?

 

Fairly simply actually. With the model I described the only thing harmed is her feelings which is entirely her own fault because she was being deceitful to herself. Let’s not forget we are talking about a pub pick-up here, not a mate’s little sister. If the girls is dreaming of wedding bells when she went home with 19 year old me at 3am her understanding of reality is broken, you can’t be responsible someone’s else’s faulty situational awareness.

With the model you outlined she gets a permanent and damaging STD. If you want to take it to the next extreme were I planning on making a jacket out of her I would also be keeping it to myself until after she was in my basement and had rubbed the fucking lotion on her skin. It’s a shitty comparison man.

A lot of the post hookup angst I have encountered is girls being drama queens in denial because they feel guilty the next morning for doing exactly what they wanted to the night before and blaming the guy. When I’m drinking with my mates I don’t sit them down and explain that we might get drunk and make questionable decisions. It’s implied, and they are adults who can make and be responsible for their own decisions, even the girls.

 

Why do guys feel the need to go on and on about things that I couldn't possibly answer or change? Mr. P will ask me for answers that I can't provide! Currently,it's about the kids' dad, when he's going to pay, when he's going to take them next...I DON"T KNOW. Sure, I can ask him, he will give me an answer, but 80% of the time he flakes out on what he says he's going to do. So, I don't really know!

Arrgghhh. Because he then gets pissy I don't spend time worrying about it.