The Workout/Exercise thread

Can you elaborate on why treadmills are so horrible. I typically love to run outside, but in the winter (like today when there are 10 inches of snow on the ground) or in the summer when it is 100+ degrees out, I resort to the treadmill just to maintain so I don't have to start from scratch in the spring and fall. Am I increasing my risk for injury? Equipment like the elliptical just doesn't seem to give me the workout that running does.

 

I like hamster wheels; they're a nice way to train cardio.

I also don't understand how running outside is supposed to be an improvement if the problem is that the treadmill is uneven; that's an even bigger factor outside!

 

I recently tried the Hoist machines at my new gym. I have to say they sure are....different. They're similar to Hammer Strength, but it also uses your body as a counterweight a la The Total Gym so you rock in your seat whenever you rep. Like Hammer Strength, it burns in the right place afterwards but you don't strain yourself elsewhere from sitting still. If I can get around the creepy motion-feeling, I think I'll like these things.

 

An uneven treadmill is uneven on the same side, the same amount, the whole time. Outside varies unless you live somewhere weird.

 

I've definitely used a treadmill when it was icy outside or there was absolutely no way I could avoid 100+ degree heat (sorry...I'm not running alone, outside, at 5 am and ending up in a ditch). Personally, I would never regularly use a machine for a cardio workout. I don't think it's going to significantly increase the risk of injury...you're just really weakening your body, and when you take it outside it really is almost like starting from square one to make up the difference. This is why I don't like treadmills:

1. It's doing a lot of the work for you. You're not propelling yourself forward. If you run on a treadmill for a week or two and then take it outside you'll notice that running outside requires much more energy, strength, and endurance.

2. It's not natural. You're missing out on going up and down hills and taking turns that are going to occur on a trail. Some might say they play with the incline to get some hills or use programs on the treadmill, but neither of those compares to what happens outside. Another benefit of running outside and mixing up your route is that your body gets a slightly different workout every time just because of the course.

3. People tend to go on auto-pilot and turn off their brains more often. I've been guilty of this: hop on the treadmill, set the speed to 7.5 mph, 3% incline and plod along for 30 minutes. Obviously, you get more out of a workout when you're alert, paying attention to your heart rate and breathing, feeling the way your feet land and staying in tune with your body, keeping your technique in check. I think people tend to do that more often outside because, again, it's much more demanding.

 

I'm just going to butt in and mention that while I agree outside running is better overall, mainly for the very solid reasons you outlined, it's fucking January and most of us have snow on the ground so running outside opens us up to several unnecessary risks.

In conclusion, if you are in the south right now, go suck 10,000 cocks.

Sincerely,
New England

 

I fucking hate Cardio. I'd never do it except as a warm up if I had my choice. But recently - I've been dealing with shoulder/elbow/wrist/hand/finger pain that's pretty bad and dramatically impacts my ability to do anything involving weights. So I've been making an effort to do more Cardio. Walking home from work through hills and valleys - with no choice but to keep walking or sleep in the gutter - has gotten me better results from time investment than anything I've ever done on a piece of gym based cardio equipment. In the last couple of weeks - I've lost inches of my waist line and seen a general dramatic improvement in body shape. A large part of that has also been diet changes - but fundamentally - but on the same diet slogging along on an elliptical or a treadmill in the past? Nothing like these results.

 

To be fair, I know someone who lost 80 pounds by parking a treadmill in front of a TV and slightly changing his diet. I still think outside work is better for overall fitness, especially since it took him almost 45 minutes to run a 5k, but you have to remember that fat loss is purely calories consumed vs calories used.

 

I'm a big proponent of 'quit thinking about it and just do anything you fat bastard'. Jazz hands while watching Glee will be better than just shoveling KFC down while you spend months talking about program optimization online. But my observation is that a couple of miles on uneven surface and varying inclines - ie the road, engages a lot more of your stabilizers and a lot more of your capacity for calorie consumption than the same time/distance/pace on a treadmill, despite not feeling dramatically more tiring for me at least.

For personal enjoyment, I'd much rather be doing Squats / Deadlifts / Rows / Presses - that sort of work out is more fun for me. But in the same context - I find that I probably get better results helping a friend move than I would from the same amount of effort in the gym. I try and adjust my weights work to reflect awkward shapes and grips, stabilizer engagement and as much real world as I can - but I still probably got the best strength gains of my life when I helped a bunch of people move over the course of a few weekends and I was carrying awkwardly shaped shit without decent grip points up stairs and off of trucks.

 

I know, but in terms of biomechanics, is a surface uneven in a certain way for the duration of 15-20 minutes worse than a surface uneven in a bunch of different ways each and every single time you run on it?

I'm not denying that running outside is better simply because it's clean air outside instead of a bunch of sweating assholes next to you inside, (not to mention what TX. wrote above) but in terms of injury? I don't see why there should be a difference.

 

The only plus side I find to a treadmill, other than it's nice when it's -20 and icy as shit out, and the only reason I find to use it is; it's nice to be able to turn the speed up past what I comfortably run at outside. It makes me run harder, and for longer than I normally would and generally will help improve my speeds outdoors. This also works way better for doing running intervals, than just doing sprints outdoors (if your treadmill can hit 12 or 14 mph).

Mind you, if you have a good running partner, this probably doesn't matter so much.

 

Yes. At least with an uneven surface in a dozen different ways the intrinsic muscles of your body are being challenged and reacting to the changes. If it's uneven in the same exact way you're working the same muscles non-stop and building imbalances.

 

Cool story. Which ones are the intrinsic muscles?

 

I'm just going to butt in and mention that it's currently -20F here right now and that doesn't include the windchill. We've had record snowfall and NONE of the sidewalks are cleared. I took my dog for a mile run last night before heading to the gym.

In conclusion, wipe the sand out of your clit and grow a pair.

Sincerely,
Minnesota




*I don't run outside every day. I normally run at the indoor track, but I didn't have time to go there last night and they don't allow 100 lb wundermutts.

 

The tiny ones that run along the plantar side of your feet.

Something I wanted to add but was too tired to last night is that I think it's better for your SI joint if you're on different uneven surfaces instead of just ONE for 30 minutes. I'd rather have mine be tugged 5 different ways for shorter bouts of time than only one way for an extended length. This could also be applied to your knee joint/ankle joint/pretty much every joint in your body.

My point last night was that one positive of running on uneven surfaces (that are changing through your route, in Vibrams/barefoot) is that the muscles in your feet are being challenged.

 

So in other words, if you go to a standard gym with 15-20 different treadmills, all of which are uneven in different ways, and are constantly being maintained/slightly changed, you would get the same benefit, right?

 

If you changed treadmills every few minutes, yes. But I'm assuming you're referring to using different treadmills on different days.

Honestly dude, I see your posts on TIB and InStrength and I think you're usually posting just to be contrarian. But anyway: try sticking a 2" piece of foam in your left shoe and walk around for 10 minutes—let me know if your ankles, knees, or hips aren't hurting from the imbalance. Okay, now by your argument of changing treadmills every workout, switch the piece of foam to your right shoe and walk around for 10 minutes and see if you feel better (if it "evens out")—actually you'll probably feel worse. Now, a treadmill probably won't be uneven by a full 2", but even half or quarter of an inch of difference will affect you when you take thousands of high-impact steps over the course of a jog.

EDIT: If you actually want to try this experiment (though who does?), you can try walking around with just one shoe on to create that imbalance. Seriously, you won't be able to walk 5 steps without feeling like shit.

 

You're being facetious, right?

It's not even a benefit, really. It's more like an uber Pollyanna moment.

 

When it comes to exercise, I openly admit not knowing a great deal. That's why I'm asking questions in these posts, not making any definitive statements.

Surely, that's a pretty ridiculous exaggeration, isn't it? As you later admit, no treadmill is anywhere near this uneven. But let's assume that you're correct, and even a 0.125" imbalance on one side (an eight of an inch) will cause injury after a couple of miles running.

But in that case, what about the imbalances on the road, which can sometimes be as bad as 1" for short stretches? Or what about running up an uneven incline, like a hill, where one foot is constantly higher than the other?

Isn't that comparable? If not, then what's the difference?

From anecdotal evidence, I've run on both treadmills with steep inclines and up and down hills, and I can tell you my legs hurt far worse after the latter.

Not entirely. You're obviously not the first person who has argued that the uneven stress of the outside is better for exercise; I'm just curious how that's beneficial, but the uneven stress of one of a dozen different treadmills is so bad that it leads to injury.

For the record, I've injured knees, ankles, and legs doing a variety of different things, including running outside, but it has yet to occur with a treadmill.