Having their hands in ginning up the conflict in the first place is doing something, I guess. As well as supporting the movement to overthrow the Ukrainian government. That's definitely doing something.
It looks like the sanctions may be having some affect. Putin's withdrawn troops from the Ukrainian border, and called for the separatists to put off voting for their referendum. This gives Ukraine time to hold their scheduled elections, and hopefully bring down the violence level. I don't the Russian separatist will be as active when it looks like Russia is backing away from supporting them. It's at least an interesting development, but there is a long way to go before this whole thing is resolved.
So the US is levying sanctions against Russia for fighting the Neo-Nazis that helped overthrew the Ukrainian government and the US is supporting them. Is this what you all have in mind when you say the US should help out? <a class="postlink" href="http://digitaljournal.com/news/world/mccain-stands-with-neo-nazis-in-kiev-experts-say-us-fueled-rise/article/374226" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://digitaljournal.com/news/world/mc ... cle/374226</a>
I think it's certainly not a surprise that violent extremists will take advantage of just about any situation that induces chaos and suddenly gives them increased opportunity to act. I also think you can see the bias in that article at a glance. Just look at the pictures they chose. It's one thing to say that McCain is promising support to protesters, and another to say McCain is supporting neo nazis. The fact that the crazies are using this as a stage is them being opportunist, it's not the same thing as the US supporting and promoting them specifically. I could be wrong, they've supported some fucked up stuff behind the scenes in the past, but they generally keep shit like that pretty quiet. This article just gives me the feel that they're really reaching to make these 'ties'.
The US failure in Iraq and Afghanistan were almost entirely political and not really comparable scenarios. Conventionally, Russia does not stand a chance against the US, much less NATO. We'd find a way to fuck everything up after the military victory just like every other war though. There will be a lot of posturing but no conflict over Ukraine.
I sincerely hope no additional boots get on the ground there because who wants war, and the US has done more than enough of it lately, the country is exhausted on a lot of levels. If it were to happen, NATO does not equal just Britain and America, and a war against an actual standing army like Russia's would be a very different beast than the kind of conflict and strategies employed in Afghanistan. I'm certainly not a military strategist, but just looking at the land and types of forces involved, it seems logical that it would be a very different kind of fight. Here's hoping the game of pokey chest is effective enough to prevent it.
Now Putin's insurgent fuckheads have declared the state of Donetsk as "independent", announcing it will join Russia also. Piece by piece. That's how you steal back a country you stole before, kids.
So who are the insurgents? The people that overthrew the government a couple months ago, or the ones that want to restore the old one? Does it matter to you not at all who ginned up the conflict in the first place or who is fighting against Russia (AKA neo-Nazis) now? It wasn't a bunch of college age freedom fighters who just wanna love gay people and equality for women, you know.
I was just saying what's been breaking over there. Once again you're turning this into your spin, bringing up stuff about Neo-Nazis that seemingly nobody but you has discussed. I am done conversing with you in this thread. You're like a dog with a frisbee every time somebody says something and its really obnoxious.
A lot of people around here are posting "their spin", and I see a decided lack of anything remotely resembling a reputable source. Start posting references/links, quit bashing anyone's opinion, and play nice, or it's being closed. If you don't agree with someone, explain your position, ask for clarification or sources... but don't resort to calling them names. Or just don't fucking reply, instead of announcing your intentions to not reply, in some juvenile bid to get the last word in.
I've generally avoided posting in this thread, because it's such a historically and politically complicated situation. However, here are a couple articles refuting the accusations of Neo-Nazism as a motivator in the uprising: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/ukraine-uprising-fascist-coup-grassroots-movement http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/ukraines-phantom-neo-nazi-menace/359650/ The leaders of Ukraine's Jewish communities even wrote an open letter to Putin rejecting the claim that Neo-Nazism is a factor: Source for the letter: http://www.jta.org/2014/03/05/news-opinion/world/ukraines-jewish-leaders-to-vladimir-putin-back-off