Oh god don't get me wrong, I would love to see Jenny McCarthy nude too. I would listen To Jenny talk about autism nude, and I would listen to Pam talk about PETA nude. I would listen to both of them nude talk about anything.
Alls I know is that cow/sheep/chicken is going to die some day. He may as well get it over with and be my delicious meal. But then I subscribe to the notion that if God didn't want me to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so delicious (and leafy greens so bitter). I spent time on a cattle station in Australia and they have a whole different way of doing it than America. The farmer needed to kill a steer, so he just perched on the fence with a .22 and shot it in the face. When it wouldn't drop, he moved up to a bigger gun. PETA should be grateful for America's methods.
Funny story. A friend of mine had a job in high school that paid pretty well. He was one of the guys that caught the chickens in the big farms and packed them into the shipping crates that were then loaded onto the trucks and sent on their way to the processing plants. The way they did this was to just go wading in and grab the chickens by the lower legs, and getting 4-6 chickens per grab. The chickens would then be shoved into their new travel crate, with 4-6 per crate, as specified by the shipping/packing orders. (He said about half of them get broken legs as a result, too). The large barns that these chickens are raised in STINK. The amount of methane produced by thousands of chickens shitting everywhere is incredible, so they have huge extraction fans throughout the barn to blow the methane-laden air outside, and suck the new air in through the roof vents. These fans are HUGE, and are very powerful. Think NASA wind tunnel kind of stuff. Anyway, one day a driver shows up, and is a complete and utter prick to the guys loading up the truck, constantly berates the guys that are working their asses off, and they eventually had enough of his shit. When the driver went outside for a smoke, and conveniently stood right beneath a pair of the extraction fans, my buddy grabbed 4 of the chickens, and from inside the barn, tossed them up and into the fans. Instant chicken puree. And it sprayed all over the driver. He was immediately and completely soaked in liquid chicken. The official story to the shop manager was "those chickens saw us coming and tried to make a break for it". Manager knew the driver was a dick, so he laughed his ass off and wrote it up like that. Driver never came back.
I hope a vegetarian slaps you for making your entire group seem like a bunch of mouth-breathing morons. Focus- Animals give up their lives, even if they are non-sentient, for humans to be stronger, have better nutrition, health, and mental concentration. That sacrifice should be respected in the form of not wasting meat, whether it be chicken, fish, steak, etc. If you want to be a vegetarian, go ahead, but let's be honest; you hardly care for a small fraction of the human species. It's a bit strange that you care more for a bunch of non-sentient animals from a species different than your own.
This thread is an excellent example of what I meant with the word 'specist' You see, someone else said that this was the same reasoning to defend slavery and he's right. Now by saying this, we're not saying that they are moral equivalents. Slavery was far worse, however the reasoning you are using is just the same. You might as well say "These [insert ethnic race here] are not to be cuddled loved or pitied, they are meant for picking cotton, that's all". It's simply a non-argument, but just a statement of prejudice. You try and defend the treatment of these animals and their de-beaking by talking about how they behave. Well sure, what do you expect when you raise them so close to each other in dark, awful conditions. People used to use the fact that slaves were uneducated to defend slavery, when it was becuase of slavery they were uneducated. It's the same here. The factory farming of chickens is wholly unnecessary and morally indefensible. More Cowbell addressed me opposition to whaling with this post No, I don't feel the same way about bugs. I'm not sure how to define it, but they're a lower form of life. They have very little intelligence and I'm not all that interested in them. On the other hand, whales are very intelligent creatures, are fascinating to study, live to a very old age, travel the oceans. They are some of natures finest creations, I instinctively feel it is wrong to kill them. What gives us the right?
Ah, how interesting...the guy who thinks factory farming of chickens is "morally indefensible" feels it's okay to squash bugs because they're not as "smart". Here's a news flash; it's very unclear to what degree larger animals are sentient. In that sense, you can absolutely compare them to insects. So you're left with one of two choices; 1. At some point, you agree that killing smaller animals/insects/plants is okay, in which case, you're a hypocrite. 2. You think killing any "living" being is wrong. In that case, I have horrible news for you; you are killing millions of tiny living beings every time you wash your hands, take a walk, use shampoo on your head, etc.
This is one of the worst written posts of all time. "Fuck the Japanese." Really? All of them? An entire race of people, because of a really poor entree selection? While, I think whale killing is reprehensible, I wouldn't compare it to people eating a fish. I could understand placing economic sanctions against Japan over whaling. Don't purchase products made in Japan. Maybe something along these lines? Did you really compare slavery to being indifferent about animals suffering? You would get killed in some neighborhoods if you said that out loud. That was a poor choice of words. And this was then: Now?: Yeah, I'm gonna listen to her.
He never equivocated slavery and animal cruelty, he was making a point illustrating the similarity in the reasoning behind the two. I believe in having a respect for life and compassion for all living creatures. Would anyone here say they see nothing wrong in pulling up a 600 year old tree for it's timber? Or snapping crystals off the inside of a cave, destroying beauty that took millions of years to develop? Can you rationalise why? I certainly can't, but I do feel uncomfortable at the idea of it. It is the same with chickens compared to bugs, they are a more elaborate and intelligent life form than a bug and so deserve somewhat more respect. I realise I'm being vague here, but it is very hard to define. However, when I see footage of or read about factory farms, I instinctively know that it is wrong. I don't think my position is one that can be reached through reason either if you're aware of how chickens are treated yet see no problem with it. It may have to be that I say here I stand and hope that more people come over to my side. However I remain firm in my opposition to using animals as purely a means to making money, it's capitalism in it's most brutal form. Once it was human beings who were seen as nothing more than objects to be owned and used for profit, now it is animals. Hopefully our sense of compassion and the moral Zeitgeist will advance far enough that we look back and see these things as wrong.
All right, who let the fucking hippy in? Chater? Don't we have some kind of patchouli filtering system?
Equivocated? Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is equivocated? Exactly what point was similar between slavery and animal cruelty? Did you mean to say that the two weren't the same thing? I get what you're saying about hugging all the animals cause they're cute. And the not liking bugs thing. I get that too. I don't like any bugs that I can think of. I like animals, we're cool with each other. People who torture animals are dickheads. We can agree on this? I'm not even sure what the issue at hand is here. I wrote in a post earlier about the poor choice in words regarding slavery. It really wasn't all that long ago that it existed and the mere mention of it can make people upset. To compare the enslavement of human beings to the abuse of chickens or other animals is highly insensitive.
Dude, you obviously have never been to a farm, yet you whine about these "factory farms" because of some bullshit propaganda you saw on your TV. Every time I hear the term "factory Farm" I want to slap someone in the cocksucker. Where are these places? Are there huge factories cranking out livestock somewhere, or is this just what they are calling the larger farms? I grew up on a farm, work on a farm, and have been around agriculture my entire life and have never seen the shitty conditions that Peta speaks of. The gigantic livestock farms are the ones that are the cleanest hand have the best conditions. It is unbelievable how many people have no idea where their food comes from, yet they whine because Peta has video footage of one incompetent, abusive shit head out of probably a million other good farmers. If you want to see what's really going on, take a drive in the country some day and visit some farms. Talk to some farmers and tell them you'd like to see what agriculture is all about. Most of them would be happy to show you around, if they're not too busy. You'd find out that these animals live much more comfortable lives than they would in the wild. Anyways, if anyone needs me, I'll be over at the factory farm bulldozing sick cattle with a forklift.
It is the exception rather than the rule to see people abuse animals in that fashion, the are abuses and bad apples in any industry and line of work. The factory farms are very efficient at what they do, they grow chickens fast so we people can eat them. They are genetically modified of course, but so is everything from fruit to vegatables to nuts and grains they are modified to grow bigger and faster with less chance of disease. They are also killed in a very efficient manner. If you don't like how they do it raise your own fucking chickens, people who squawk the loudest about animal cruelty are for the most part ignorant of any knowledge of the care and dedication it takes to raise any kind of animal, much less animals that are consumed by humans. Most are entitled, arrogant assholes for example Bill Maher. I would be all for whaling if it was an sustainable resource. The meat is very good from what I hear but along with the fucking Japanese a few short years ago the fucking Americans put a sizeable dent in the population as well so that will probably have to be put on hold for another couple hundred years. There are a few American Indian tribes that are still allowed to kill whales, just fyi.
Read BL1Y's statement, carefully. In those words he's saying that animals are nothing more than creatures that exist solely to produce meat and other edible products, and that he doesn't care if they suffer in that process because they are just part of a company's stock. Notice any similarities between that and human slavery? I was not arguing about which one was worse, and I was not downplaying decades of oppression. I was pointing out that his argument in the defense of allowing animals to suffer needlessly is in the same vein as the one used to justify slavery. That's it. And just for the record, I eat meat too. That's not where my problem lies. My problem with is people who don't respect the animals. People who, like the clowns in the video I posted don't even kill the fucking thing properly before cooking it. Chater's story pisses me off too. Four chickens that went uneaten and were sacrificed for a laugh and a bit of revenge? I can't stand that shit. I agree, should've pulled my head out of my ass before I wrote that. Fuck the ones in that video. That's what it should've said.
Essentially, you're saying situation 2, bolded above, best describes your mindset. (Nevermind that your first and second posts in this topic seem to contradict that) Do you wash your hands? Do you shampoo your hair? If so, you're a hypocrite and by your own standards, a "morally indefensible" person, since you are killing millions of tiny, living organisms. Crystals? They're not even living by any definition of the word! I guess I should have added a third option above, for people that believe destroying ANYTHING, whether alive or inanimate, is "morally indefensible". I hope I've demonstrated what a militant stance on the sanctity of animal life brings with it; either you take it to ridiculous lengths, like Solaris has, or at some point, you stop and say, "I have a problem with killing larger animals, but insects, protists, and prokaryotes are fair game." Now you're just throwing around buzzwords and cliches without any rhyme or reason. What does "capitalism" have to do with anything? Last I checked, socialist and self-proclaimed communist nations all butchered animals in far worse conditions than the US does.
It should be obvious that I largely agree with you, but you're kinda going off the rhetorical deep end. It's clearly possible to be deeply troubled by animal suffering involved in the food production business without going to the lengths you ascribe. Everyone who has thought seriously on the matter has to deal with the fact that at some point, the termination of life and any suffering that happens as a byproduct must be outweighed by exigencies of everyday human existence. It's largely a matter of where and how one draws that line. One can draw the line at some point short of "Kill 'em all" without that entailing that he avoids killing every bacteria cell in the world.
I completely agree; that's what number 1 above describes. People who have a problem with a large animal being killed, but stop caring at some point in the living organism chain. There's nothing wrong with that by itself, as long as you don't adopt a stance like Solaris did, calling it "morally indefensible". In that case, you're a hypocrite. Some vegetarians are legitimate in their empathy for other animals, but I think the really militant ones, who want everyone else to follow them, are largely disingenuous. And let's be honest; extremely few human beings even possess strong empathy for all the members of their own species. Either you're a one in a million person that cares a tremendous deal about every animal on the planet, human or not, or else you care more about the plight of a different animal species than humans. The former is exceptional, while the latter is fucked up.
Yes, "Fuck the Japanese" because someone in Taiwan (note, Taiwan is not Japan), makes this dish. I'm not saying it's right, it seems more like a gimmick to get people to try the dish than anything else to me, but if you're going to start throwing around hate, at least get the nationality right when it says in both the video's subtitles and the Description of the youtube video that it's Taiwan.
Truth: Watch the fuck out for the militant vegetarians. You hear that vegetarians? Hitler is on your side. How many times has Hitler's side been right? Clearly meat-eaters are the good guys here.