Yes, we all know she's got words across her chest. Yes, we also know people are going to attempt to read it rather than just ask. They are men, they are pigs when it comes to tits. This is not rocket science. When I managed in retail the person above me was a good looking married dude and we were close in age. We'd joke and so on but he crossed the line when he told me he'd like to bend me over a box in the stockroom. I didn't report him or anything but I did let him know that he'd stepped over the line. It never happened again but the working relationship was a bit strained for a little while. This is always an interesting topic because some women dress in a manner or act a certain way that encourages the behavior yet get all fucking pissy when the guys respond, like guys do. We women seek out validation from them and when we feel violated we run to a higher up. I think it's unfair and that the female should bear some responsibility. But alas, we are all delicate unique flowers and all you guys out there just want to fuck us and then crush our little souls. I call bullshit.
I am going to end up writing a novel during this post. If you don't want to be stared at then: A) Don't have a fucking tattoo on your chest. B) Don't wear things that put a focus on your chest. C) Don't have tits. If you have tits men are going to stare. Case closed. You have no right to fucking bitch if you do/wear something that draws attention to yourself. You are doing/wearing it on purpose which means you are asking to be fucking stared at. What if it was a female staring at you? Would they be considered creepy? My boss's best friend also owns his own insurance agency. He has declared that he is allowed to hit on me all he wants, because I do not work for him. He is married and has two children. It has not slowed him down at all. He thinks he is a stud. The best part is he is 5'4" and pigeon toed. He asks for me to tell him naughty stories. He has asked me out numerous times. Big fucking deal. I have a sense of humor, and I take it as a compliment. As far as I am concerned, unless the person is trying to take picture of you, steal your underwear, or stalking you, fucking relax about it. Laugh at it. Is it really all that bad?
Jennitalia-Perhaps there is confusion about respect and boundaries and all because of the female backlash of women referring to men as "my favorite penis" and the like. Women are starting to treat men like objects with the double standard of expecting them to look us in the eye or at the floor, so as not to appear creepy. I myself am quite guilty of verbal sexual harassment and I can only expect the bar to be where I set it. I joke and play but rarely have truly been sexually harassed. Not in years, anyway. Let's face it, we've come along way from the Mad Men scenario. Oh, and tattooing your chest? That is going to cost alot to remove, and YEARS.
I defend these cases for a living. Here's my advice to men: In this day and age, physically attractive women are a dime a dozen, especially in big cities. Why on earth would you risk your job hitting on some fungible woman at work? Save that for the bars. Can a workplace stipulate to allow sexual behavior that would otherwise be unwelcome? Technically, I suppose, the answer is yes. Practically, however, no. As a male supervisor, you are always at risk for being accused of unwelcome behavior. As several of the above posts have noted, for many women it is only sexual harassment if they classify the guy as "creepy". (And, according to several prior women posters, creepy is defined as over 40 yrs of age and/or bald -- i.e. a large segment of the male population). Moroever, I have defended many cases where women suddenly reclassified a man as "creepy" after he stopped sleeping with her or dissatisfied her at the workplace. Does real sexual harassment/discrimination happen? Absolutely. I persuade my clients to settle many cases when idiotic men have behaved badly. However, I have crushed many delusional women in court who believed that their inability to succeed in the workplace was attributable to people supposedly fixated upon their boobs, when, in reality it was their failure to do their jobs.
I don't condone sexual harassment at all. But I tell you what REALLY pisses me off are the overly fragile people who make this crap a dramatic nightmare. I've attended a few sexual harassment "sessions", and hated every one of them for the simple fact that the vast majority of the subject matter seems to cater to those people who can't communicate with other people. It's not about grabbing someone's ass, or staring at their tits, or making crude comments... it's about incredibly subjective actions that are easily interpreted either way. Again, so much of it comes down to people not being able to talk to someone else and say, "hey, I don't like that, please stop doing it." Instead, their recourse is to go to their manager and say "this person is sexually harassing me by talking to me in my cubicle and being social and I interpret that to him coming on to me and it makes me feel uncomfortable".
Sometimes just stepping up and actually telling the offender he's done something wrong works wonders. Props to you, and I wish more women, and men for that matter, would try and confront anyone who's crossed the line before barking at the higher ups to take action. Now, this obviously isn't going to work in all situations, and you have to choose your battles, but if it's a viable option then give it a shot. I've lost two jobs for sexual harassment. The one I mentioned in the first page of this thread, and another for an off the cuff comment. One of the servers, with whom I thought I had a pretty good working relationship, mentioned that a pasta I'd plated looked good, to which I replied, "You look good." She giggled a bit, smiled, and then took the pasta to her table. I figured all was well. The next day I got called into the office by the GM/Owner who apparently thought I'd already known why I was there. I had no idea. My comment didn't even register as offensive in my head, likely as a result of my profession. In the restaurant industry, discussions about anything and everything are not uncommon, and quips like mine are a dime a dozen. Anyways, after five or ten minutes of grilling me, as I sat there completely baffled, he finally told me what had happened. He pulled out a copy of the Employee Code of Conduct, told me I was out of line, and fired me. Fair enough, I'd offended one of his employees, and I certainly couldn't hold it against him. He had to do it, not only to protect himself, but also his business. My problem lies with the fact that this woman never approached me and told me I'd stepped over the line. Had she done so, I would've apologized, sincerely, and watched my actions in the future, as a show of respect and professional courtesy. But she didn't, and I lost my job. I've said an astonishing number of wildly offensive things in my time as a chef. The vast majority of it gets swept under the rug because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean shit, and most of us restaurant lifers are too busy getting shit done properly and having a good time doing it to take offense. It's almost one of those unwritten rules, you know? And I've been called out a few times by those I've really and truly offended, and each time I've eaten some crow and taken that shit like a man, thankful and appreciative that they had the guts and the respect to deal with the issue like adults, instead of threatening my job security and my livelyhood. But those two times had me on my knees, unemployed and shamed, because they went on a witch hunt. Not all of us chefs are vile pigs, just as not all men are trying to sleep with every woman they see, every minute of every day, and if given a second chance we can change our stripes a bit to accommodate those we work alongside. The catch is, sometimes you have to accommodate us too.
I work in a male-dominated field. We have a fabrication facility attached to our offices. There is occasionally some joking between me and the guys out in the yard. An old fellow whistles and pretends to hide, that kind of thing. Almost all of the guys out there are from another country: Chile, the Philippines, etc. You have to be sensitive because sometimes what one culture perceives as sexual harassment another culture views as simply the way men and women talk to each other. It's a fine line. I don't take offense when the guys kid around because it's quite obvious that there's no serious or malicious intent behind it. I feel 100% secure in the knowledge that if I ever felt someone had crossed a line I could go to a supervisor and talk to them about it. Now, here's a lesson for all the young girls on the board: you cannot have it both ways. Sometimes it sucks; sometimes it's unfair; sometimes it's a double standard, but that's life. You can be the girl who: posts her tits, wears revealing clothes, says silly girly flirty things, gets drunk and sloppy, etc. You can be the girl who: has valid, thoughtful opinions, dresses conservatively, drinks in moderation, recognizes when to keep things professional and when to be more off-guard. YOU CANNOT BE BOTH. Men and other women will never accept you as both people. You might get away with having two completely different sets of friends; some who know you as the Madonna and some who know you as the whore, but the same person who sees both sides of your character will not take you seriously. Bitch all you want, but that's just the way life is. You have to make your choice and stick to your team, because invariably once men see you as the drunken sloppy slutty chick they no longer view you as an equal.
You could also be the girl who has valid, thoughtful opinions, dresses conservatively, drinks in moderation, recognizes when to keep things professional and when to be more off-guard and is treated as if she posts her tits, wears revealing clothes, says silly girly flirty things, gets drunk and sloppy, etc. (This goes for men too, women can definitely be inappropriately aggressive in the workplace, especially since it isn't seen as the stereotypical type of harassment.) Look, I'm not arguing that there aren't overly sensitive women out there. Nor am I arguing that if you are dressing unprofessionally, it isn't hypocritical to be annoyed that people respond to that. And, if you are the valid, thoughtful type, you are definitely more likely to have a comfortable working environment. However, it's not always "oh, silly girl (boy), why didn't you just say something/relax?" or "well, of course he (she) was staring at your chest (ass), you were egging him (her) on!" Sometimes, people are jerks and you can't just (nor do I think it's fair to expect you to) laugh it off. To counter Volo's experience, I was a waitress in a restaurant and thought I had a pretty good working relationship with one of the chefs. He asks me out, I'm not interested and politely decline. He asks me out again and I, once again, decline. He becomes more flirtatious to the point that I feel very uncomfortable. It's easy for a lot of the mature, mid-late twenties/early thirties folks here to talk about being able to rationally confront someone, but when you are young and intimidated, it seems a lot harder and scarier. Don't discount the fact that being able to securely (and respectfully) confront someone is a skill that can take years to develop. Nevertheless, I thought that he might not realize he was making me so uncomfortable, so I ask him to stop. I was only 18 at the time, so it involved a lot of avoiding eye contact, awkwardness, and I'm sure there was mumbling (when I was younger, I mumbled when I felt nervous/anxious). The next shift, my orders start getting messed up. It's a small restaurant, so there weren't other chefs to make sure he stayed in line. Dishes where I asked for no onions got extra onions, that kind of thing. Nothing extremely obvious (or awful) and nothing that couldn't be explained by the chaos of a busy shift, but somehow I was the only one having problems with my orders. This would continue whenever we'd work together. People might say: "well, that was obviously wrong, go talk to the manager." But, as stupid and immature as it sounds now, I didn't want to be a tattletale and risk the other servers getting mad at me. Maybe (definitely) someone more experienced would have handled the situation better, but I don't think that people should discount how uncomfortable this kind of behavior can be, especially when you fear some sort of reprisal. Now, I'm not at all implying that Volo would have reacted like that or even that this is why your server didn't talk to you first. In retrospect, it wasn't that big of a deal and he probably thinks of it now as a funny story ("this awkward chick couldn't take a few jokes so I messed with her food a little bit"). I ended up quitting that job, though, because I felt so uncomfortable and dreaded going to work because I thought I might see him. I can't imagine what this would be like in a corporate environment, when a lot more than a $2.13/hour job is on the line. Really wasn't my intention to get on a soapbox or be self-righteous here, just thought I'd present another perspective.
Today, I pulled my female logistician aside and said "I've got a big fat fitter." She's responded with "[Natty], you can't say that!" To which I responded "No you fucking pervert our proposed solution fits within our physical vehicle constraints!" At that point she gives me a high five, a hug, and a compliment or two. Come to think of it, she does greet me by giving me an occasional shoulder squeeze and sometimes gives me a kiss on the cheek when we leave each others company. Fuck, I think I need a lawyer. EDIT: Ironic sidenote, she refers to her BMW as Miss MoneyPenny. And she's definitely my girl.